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Judge Dredd Miniatures Game» Forums » General

Subject: "JUVE GIRL WITH HANDGUN"? rss

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Swan Bones
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I'm just at the very brink of getting into the Dredd miniatures game, and I wonder if anyone else has noticed the language used in it to be a tad phallocentric?

When you label juve miniatures as "JUVE WITH HANDGUN 1", "JUVE WITH HANDGUN 2", "JUVE WITH HANDGUN 3" and "JUVE GIRL WITH HANDGUN", your kind of making a point. Perhaps more revealing is it also came up in the manual in relation to the players e.g.: "During each turn, every player will have a chance to move and fight with all of his models." (Game rule book p. 9 / free PDF version p. 7)

It's a big problem in games like Arkham Horror, opting for the masculine almost as a point of it, so it would be a shame if this was still de rigueur. Significantly 2000AD has for the most part been on the progressive side of gender stereotypes (comparatively at least for a sci-fi/fantasy comic), so I would have thought Mongoose and Warlord might have been more savvy to it than they seem, particularly when taking on a game based on such a politically engaged comic strip as Judge Dredd.

(Edited for typos and page #s)
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Noel
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Well, personally, I think you see too much into it, although the miniatures wargaming community is nearly entirely male.
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Magic Pink
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n815e wrote:
Well, personally, I think you see too much into it, although the miniatures wargaming community is nearly entirely male.


There is no excuse to be sexist. Ther's no reason to add "girl" to a mini when none of the other males have a gender descriptor and the fact that most of the buyers are male would not change that a bit.

The problem is YOU don't see ENOUGH into it. The geek community is right up there with professionsal sports for ingrained, over excused sexism and misogyny.
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Swan Bones
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n815e wrote:
Well, personally, I think you see too much into it, although the miniatures wargaming community is nearly entirely male.


Well, my sister is a wargamer (40K), but yes I do get that it appears to be a past time more directed at men. However this is partly why it's so urgent not to gender such games unnecessarily. On the one hand, imagine of how frustrating it might be to be a male minority in a majority female environment and to be constantly referred to as "she" and "her"?
 
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Noel
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Quote:
The problem is YOU don't see ENOUGH into it.


LOL.

I don't hold any gender bias, whatsoever. Therefore, I don't have an agenda to find it where it doesn't exist. You should try viewing people as individuals rather than the composition of their dna, sometime.

Quote:
imagine of how frustrating it might be to be a male minority in a majority female environment and to be constantly referred to as "she" and "her"?


"He" or "she" doesn't matter to me when using broadly addressed pronouns. It is not personally addressed to me, therefore I see no reason to be insulted by it. Certainly, in the interest of promoting equality, it has become popular to interchange "he" and "she", use both or just use "she". I've never found this bothersome.
Professionally, I am in a female dominated environment where men account for about 10% of the workforce. I'd have a pretty hard time in my career if I took offense from such things.
 
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Noel
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Instead of taking your concerns here, send an email to Mongoose. I'm sure they would be happy to alter some pronouns in their next publication to set aside any complaints about gender bias in their products.
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Swan Bones
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n815e wrote:
send an email to Mongoose


That's a good idea.

Although...
n815e wrote:
Instead of taking your concerns here
...seems to me a weird thing to say. Perhaps I've completely misunderstood the point of Boardgamegeek.

As an side note ...
n815e wrote:
"He" or "she" doesn't matter to me when using broadly addressed pronouns
...this might be because we live in a patriarchy.
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Dangerous Partners
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Jacky Blue Note wrote:
n815e wrote:
send an email to Mongoose


That's a good idea.

Although...
n815e wrote:
Instead of taking your concerns here
...seems to me a weird thing to say. Perhaps I've completely misunderstood the point of Boardgamegeek.

As an side note ...
n815e wrote:
"He" or "she" doesn't matter to me when using broadly addressed pronouns
...this might be because we live in a patriarchy.

I think BGG has a dedicated forum for discussions on sex, religion, politics and a lot other most likely, that may be a better forum for this discussion that a game forum.

On a side note I know some of the people in the Mongoose office and you will be pleased to know females are represented and get involved with many of the games including running demos at events, and game with anyone they want.
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Swan Bones
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I'm glad to hear it. I'm sure Mongoose are great. My problem is with the weird use of language. I hope the game goes from strength to strength, I am thrilled that it exists, but issues such as these are not sideline issues but issues about a community that such a game is trying to build, not least with its crowd-funded legacy.

If I were reviewing this game then this would (and does) detract from my enjoyment of it and so would have to be a key part of that review. It is not a separate issue for another, dedicated forum as it permeates the game rules and does so without any relevance to the universe of the game itself (I am not asking that the game does not use non-Dredd language) in fact it goes against (as I suggested above) the comparatively progressive nature of the source material.

Importantly Dredd is an intentionally heavily political comic strip, including issues of race, gender and sexuality. The source material is smart and aware, not just mindless action, and therefore I don't see such a discussion as irrelevant to a forum related to a game based on this material.
 
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Noel
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I doubt that Mongoose reads BGG, so posting here is not going to reach the people you actually want to.
If you are only interested in creating controversy, then I suppose here is as good a place as any other.
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n815e wrote:
I doubt that Mongoose reads BGG, so posting here is not going to reach the people you actually want to.
If you are only interested in creating controversy, then I suppose here is as good a place as any other.


Do you really think what I am saying is controversial!?! Wow. All I was asking was about other players perception of, what I saw as, a major gender issue in a game that I would, IMHO, not have expected to be so blatant. Good night.
 
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