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Subject: Agents .... thoughts on improving rss

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I’ll start off with a warning that this is a stream of consciousness and this is going to be long. Hopefully it is worth the effort to both type and read.

I participated in a thread the other day that branched off into Agents and how they played. I have looked forward to these unique adversaries since I read update 79 where McG stated the following

Update 79 wrote:




Mini-bosses that don’t die, that appear throughout your adventures, and drop a cool hero card to insert into someone’s deck? Sound like that reoccurring menace adversary that’s in every fantasy story you’ve ever heard. I like it!

Since reading that, I’ve wondered how McG was going to pull this mechanic off. How were they going to periodically insert these Agents into stories when I didn’t see the mechanic built into any of the tiles.

I figured it would be quest based somehow. Not the random occurrence that I was hoping for, but random enough if I draw the right quest.

Now that people are receiving the Agents, I’ve learned that the agents are not exactly what I was hoping for. They are basically a Mini-Boss (with less special abilities than normal Mini-Bosses) with a card they drop. 3 Agents exist as an add-on, and there are 6 total cards (monster card and hero card for each Agent). It is currently unclear if there are specific Quests that call out these Agents (if there are, it means a quest could call for an Agent when you didn’t purchase the Add-on).

Regardless, I’m not really seeing the reoccurring nature of the Agent and certainly not one that acts as the Hero’s nemesis. Maybe my thoughts are premature here and there’s more coming, I don’t know…

Let’s for a moment presume that’s all that’s coming for Agents right now.

I’d like to take a look at something I’ve been working on as a similar (but better) Agent play element.

Here are some basic ideas that I’m putting into an Agent I’ve created myself (not yet ready for release).

Agent Appearance in Game
I’d propose adding a darkness card for agents (I’ve already made one). This card gets added to the darkness deck once the story introducing the Agent is complete. When the Agent’s Darkness card is revealed during the course of the game, the Agent has a chance of appearing.

When the Agent card is drawn, roll a FD and if Darkness then the Agent appears. You follow the instructions on the darkness card to introduce and activate the Agent. You then remove the darkness card from play.

If the FD roll fails, discard the Darkness card and draw another.

This makes Agent appearance somewhat random, yet feels like they are harassing the heroes.

Agent Combat
Maybe this is just me, but I was hoping for a bit more “freshness” around this new adversary.

For my Agent, I am giving them the chance of fleeing combat through FD rolls. Should they roll a FD recipe that calls for retreat, they summon some replacement mobs, and retreat from the tile.

Should this happen, the Agent darkness card is inserted into the darkness discard pile so there’s a chance the Agent reappears later in the Act.

This play element gives more to that “nemesis” character that you can’t kill (or have trouble doing so) and makes the Agent all the more special in terms of gameplay.

Agent Card – The one for the heroes
This one stumps me a little. If I understand what I’ve seen properly, once an Agent is defeated, anyone may insert their card into their hand.

What confuses me some (no a lot), is what happens on subsequent appearances of the Agent? Does a quest simply call for the Agent to appear again, but upon defeat they don’t drop anything (because the card is already being used)?

Interesting … if that’s the intent, I think we can improve upon it.

Again, with community cards we can do this pretty easily.
Here’s how I’m tying this agent card back to the re-occurrence of the Agent AND solving the problem of a single card drop.

I’d propose adding a new element to this Agent hero card. An “on use” condition. A hero can use the card if they want during the HC, but during the refresh phase, they have to roll a FD to see if they can keep the card. If they roll a darkness symbol, the card is lost (as if the Agent appears out of nowhere to snatch back their stolen ability) – lost meaning the card is removed from play. When removing the Agent card from play, you also insert the Agent darkness card into the draw or discard pile (whichever is larger) – they want revenge for you stealing their ability.

This gives a bit more strategy around when you play the card and to me, and gives some framework to the Agent.

Sorry for the rambling, thanks for sticking with me! What do you all think of this play variant?
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Joel Carr
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I too was hoping for multiple agent cards per agent, so on subsequent defeats more 'cards' are available. I like a lot of what you have said... Although I would up the chance of an agent appearing.. say based on highest threat of the heroes. say 1 fate die for each 3 threat. so when agent cards appears based on highest threat (or lowest depending on the agent):
0-2 : 1 FD
3-5 : 2 FD
6-8 : 3 FD
9-10 : agent appears regardless.

I was also hoping they might arrive all together at times... etc.. we shall have to see how the implementation is.

Regardless thanks for all the thoughts/embellishments/card work!
 
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Random Fleming
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Mistermannindy wrote:
When the Agent card is drawn, roll a FD and if Darkness then the Agent appears. You follow the instructions on the darkness card to introduce and activate the Agent. You then remove the darkness card from play.


Please define "remove the darkness card from play." Do you mean it should be discarded or removed from the Darkness deck (discard and fresh piles) altogether?

If the earlier, I agree. If the latter, I would recommend ALWAYS keeping the Agent in the Darkness deck. If it's recurring, there should be as many chances as possible to have the Agent reappear. After all, it's only a 1/6 chance of him appearing with each "Agent of Darkness" card draw.

Mistermannindy wrote:
For my Agent, I am giving them the chance of fleeing combat through FD rolls. Should they roll a FD recipe that calls for retreat, they summon some replacement mobs, and retreat from the tile.
I like this idea a lot. I don't know what replacement mob you would recommend but I also think with a certain recipe roll, the Heroes have a chance to still defeat the Agent. Maybe a FD roll to place X minions or a captain and y minions or a mini-boss?

Upon meeting a recipe, the mob appears. Maybe after a counter of 1 or 2 Hero Cycles, the Agent flees? Then there's still a chance to defeat the Agent. That feels more cinematic to me.

Mistermannindy wrote:
What confuses me some (no a lot), is what happens on subsequent appearances of the Agent? Does a quest simply call for the Agent to appear again, but upon defeat they don’t drop anything (because the card is already being used)?

Interesting … if that’s the intent, I think we can improve upon it.


I think we just need a whole bunch of Agent Hero cards then. When an Agent is defeated, a new card is dropped. Some are specific to certain heroes - Summon, Faith, Ammo, etc. - and others are more generic. That way, getting an Agent card is like a treasure drop: it may work for the active Heroes or it may be useless because the applicable Hero for the Agent card is not playing the Act.

Mistermannindy wrote:
I’d propose adding a new element to this Agent hero card. An “on use” condition. A hero can use the card if they want during the HC, but during the refresh phase, they have to roll a FD to see if they can keep the card. If they roll a darkness symbol, the card is lost (as if the Agent appears out of nowhere to snatch back their stolen ability) – lost meaning the card is removed from play. When removing the Agent card from play, you also insert the Agent darkness card into the draw or discard pile (whichever is larger) – they want revenge for you stealing their ability.


Or this. This is good.
 
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B Wumpus wrote:
I too was hoping for multiple agent cards per agent, so on subsequent defeats more 'cards' are available. I like a lot of what you have said... Although I would up the chance of an agent appearing.. say based on highest threat of the heroes. say 1 fate die for each 3 threat. so when agent cards appears based on highest threat (or lowest depending on the agent):
0-2 : 1 FD
3-5 : 2 FD
6-8 : 3 FD
9-10 : agent appears regardless.

I was also hoping they might arrive all together at times... etc.. we shall have to see how the implementation is.

Regardless thanks for all the thoughts/embellishments/card work!


Why not just create a "regular" Darkness Deck card where the agents appearance is a threat penalty (similar to Yardu's appearance). This will integrate seamlessly into the established mechanic and prevent any additional "process", which could become fiddly. A quest could instruct you to shuffle in the Darkness card.
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Squatting Monkey wrote:
B Wumpus wrote:
I too was hoping for multiple agent cards per agent, so on subsequent defeats more 'cards' are available. I like a lot of what you have said... Although I would up the chance of an agent appearing.. say based on highest threat of the heroes. say 1 fate die for each 3 threat. so when agent cards appears based on highest threat (or lowest depending on the agent):
0-2 : 1 FD
3-5 : 2 FD
6-8 : 3 FD
9-10 : agent appears regardless.

I was also hoping they might arrive all together at times... etc.. we shall have to see how the implementation is.

Regardless thanks for all the thoughts/embellishments/card work!


Why not just create a "regular" Darkness Deck card where the agents appearance is a threat penalty (similar to Yardu's appearance). This will integrate seamlessly into the established mechanic and prevent any additional "process", which could become fiddly. A quest could instruct you to shuffle in the Darkness card.


I purposely wanted a new play element and not something that simply played like everything else. Because of that, I designed this different from the "regular" darkness cards. I want the Agent to appear regardless of threat and instead appear based on dice roll.

I was originally thinking the recipe would be Darkness OR any hero symbol on the board, but that could be too often...
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Joel Carr
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As once lairs are down, darkness cards are less "impactful" how about each time darkness card has 'Spawn' and there is no lair, you roll for a agent?
(of course this is impacted by traps... no lair maps etc..... hmm lots ot think about
 
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Randomfleming wrote:
Please define "remove the darkness card from play." Do you mean it should be discarded or removed from the Darkness deck (discard and fresh piles) altogether?

The card does not get discarded, instead it is removed "to the box" so to speak. It is no longer shuffled into the darkness deck. This keeps the Agent from appearing over and over with NO card to drop.

Randomfleming wrote:
I like this idea a lot. I don't know what replacement mob you would recommend but I also think with a certain recipe roll, the Heroes have a chance to still defeat the Agent. Maybe a FD roll to place X minions or a captain and y minions or a mini-boss?
I would make the replacement constant - as part of the monster card. Probably a captain or two.

Randomfleming wrote:
Upon meeting a recipe, the mob appears. Maybe after a counter of 1 or 2 Hero Cycles, the Agent flees? Then there's still a chance to defeat the Agent. That feels more cinematic to me.
Maybe ... but much more difficult to manage. I prefer the action be on the card so there's no confusion.


 
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Couple of things

1) I have been told that there are quests that specifically call out the Agents so the "randomness" that I was looking for is indeed part of the design.

2) Given I haven't even played (or have in my possession) the Agents, I am premature in calling for any change. whistle When I do release my Agent, I will make sure to release it in both a "base" and "variant" format. No forcing people to play it outside the "official" way.
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Michael Pruden
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What I was going to do was make a mini boss deck from all the mini bosses and when I have to place a mini boss it draw from the deck when an agent comes up and is defeted I will return it to the deck but any other mini boss will be removed.
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n3x3n wrote:
What I was going to do was make a mini boss deck from all the mini bosses and when I have to place a mini boss it draw from the deck when an agent comes up and is defeted I will return it to the deck but any other mini boss will be removed.


I don't think we are talking about the same thing however. When I mention Randomness for Agents, I am actually referring the the possibility of them even appearing. You are drawing a mini-boss from a pile of cards once you know one of them is appearing. I want the appearance of agents to be surprising and different from a Mini-Boss or Boss. I think there are subtle differences in what you're describing.

I might not be describing this the best. Sorry.
 
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I understand what you were talking about. I just think it's easier and just as surprising. And you don't know if a mini boss is coming or an agent and think it would be kinda cinematic as you go through the mini boss deck searching for those reviles as you try to stop the darkness. I'm more of a story teller though.
 
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n3x3n wrote:
searching for those reviles


You said "reviles". laugh That's awesome!

In your minds, should an Agent always be a mini-boss? Could an Agent also be a boss, almost like a crime lord or high-level villain?

Also, should an Agent always drop a card or can they also drop treasure or provide Serendipity instead?

Or can they drop multiple cards of the same type - one for each defeat - from multiple battles? That way, more than one Hero can have the same ability. (E.g. Dash - Hero may move 4MP and lowers Defense -1TN.)

Or can they summon other Agents to appear in their stead if they manage to disappear or flee from battle (lessening the chances an Agent can be defeated and drop a card?)
 
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Note – these thoughts come from my understanding and expectations not any first hand game play. I have yet to receive anything beyond the initial US shipment. I do, however, have some thoughts on this topic given what I’ve seen online from others who do have this content as well as KS comments posted by McG early on when they were much more open with the community.
Randomfleming wrote:
In your minds, should an Agent always be a mini-boss? Could an Agent also be a boss, almost like a crime lord or high-level villain?

It’s a sandbox, Random laugh if you want to do it, then go for it. Okay snarky remark out of the way.

I personally think Agents should be reoccurring nemesis characters. They should be powerful, cunning, conniving, tough to kill and appear and disappear from nowhere. Personally I think Agents fall in that Mini-Boss/Boss range. They should be a challenge.

I think your “crime lord” or “high-level villain” fits into that loose definition.

Something should make these characters different than “normal” Mini-Bosses and Bosses.

Randomfleming wrote:
Also, should an Agent always drop a card or can they also drop treasure or provide Serendipity instead?

I don’t think a card drop is appropriate for all agents. Especially if we (the community) create a bunch of these. I like the idea of treasure drops, merchant summon (at discounted or free price), Serendipity, etc. FWIW, the Agent I am working on is going to scale up with the heroes. As heroes get stronger, the Agent will too (meaning the card dropped will have to change). Getting “stronger” will eventually mean multi-stages (like Bosses).

Randomfleming wrote:
Or can they drop multiple cards of the same type - one for each defeat - from multiple battles? That way, more than one Hero can have the same ability. (E.g. Dash - Hero may move 4MP and lowers Defense -1TN.)

I think we need to be careful about dropping “too much” from these Agents. I think there should be a tactical choice on which character takes the Agent ability. I think we start diluting the value (strategic and emotional) of Agent drops if they drop multiple cards. However, I can see many story elements incorporating multiple Agent drops. This is definitely one of the things I enjoy about the Myth framework ...

Randomfleming wrote:
Or can they summon other Agents to appear in their stead if they manage to disappear or flee from battle (lessening the chances an Agent can be defeated and drop a card?)

I like that … (you saw what I proposed along those same lines cool). This makes Agents different and expands/varies the game play. I personally think an Agent’s card should be special. Therefore it should be a real accomplishment to banish the Agent and receive the card. Having the Agent appear and disappear though special abilities and dice rolls adds to the achievement of acquiring that Agent card.

Along those same lines, I really think there should be some random way for the hero to lose the Agent card/ability – after all, what will the Agent drop the “next time” they are faced and banished?

I am proposing an Agent/Hero card that the hero has a chance to lose (roll a FD, if Darkness, the card is “lost” – reacquired by the Agent). You see, whenever a Hero uses an Agent’s ability (the card they drop), the Agent is drawn to that location. There will be times when the bond between the Agent and the ability is so strong that the card is lost back to the Agent and the Hero must replace the Agent card with any card from the deck. This action of losing the Agent card also triggers the Agent again. They may now “reappear” at any point in the future based on Darkness deck draws and dice rolls.

I am still working on some of the specifics here, but have a framework for Agents that seems to work better for my story telling style than what’s offered out of the box.

I am really looking forward to getting my hands on the new quest decks so I can see how these Agents are introduced and how often they appear before I settle in on a final proposed solution here.
 
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Wallace MacBix
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I'm also a US backer that hasn't seen anything Agent related first hand, but from what I've heard from MERCs, I like most of your implementation better. Agents were the only add-on I wish I got, but after reading more about them I'm almost glad I didn't.


I personally prefer them being summoned via the Darkness Deck (because it's really easy to include a card for each Agent if you wish) versus the Quests. If it comes via quests, it'll be more along the lines of "every 2-5 games" you'll see that quest/quest-chain, opposed to potentially having to fight him in every Act (if you want his Darkness Deck card there or not).

I also love the idea of him running away and leaving something else in his place. It also makes it much harder to game (like it is to do to Captains, Mini Bosses, Bosses) based on board placement. If you wanna wait for your Archer to kill him, while you hide behind normal minions you can try, but he may go "poof" before then.

To steal an idea from another thread (about variable hunting packs that can include captains), why not just roll 1d10(+2?) and that many "points" of monsters show up (minions count as 1, captains count as 3). Then you could have each Agent affiliated with a particular creature type, or just roll a FD (again stolen from the captain w/ hunting pack thread).


There is one thing I am not a fan of though, MM. I don't like the idea of you losing their cards. Using your variant, it would be "hard" to even get a card, there's already enough rnd in it.

Get the Darkness Card (1 in 11) --> Roll Darkness on FD (1 in 6) --> be able to kill the Agent (while doing other quests, dealing with other stuff on the tile) before he vanishes. Then, you have to fight your friends over who actually gets the card (if it isn't blatantly obvious who SHOULD get the card, and even then if there are two of the same Hero - have fun). All to have a 1/6 chance to lose it every time you use it. Those aren't good odds.


It also really depends how strong the cards are and if they are generic or really only help out one class.

Assuming there is no limit to the number of Agent cards allowed in your deck (don't remember reading anything of that nature), I really see two "fair solutions".

1) Get copies of the Agent card, and have a max of 1 unique Agent card per hero. If you fight him again, another person gets to steal a bit of his soul to gain some strength.

2) What someone posted above: Come up with a "deck" of possible cards, draw 1, then decide who gets it. Though I still like the idea of 1 Agent Card/Hero. If a Hero takes a 2nd card from the same Agent later on, they must return the first one to the Agents "deck".


Again it comes down to how strong the cards/character specific the cards are. But that's a lot of what this game is. "Yay, we beat the agent and got his card...too bad it's a "Requires - Shadows" card and we don't have a Brigand.....who's gonna take the deck filler?"
 
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FALCN120 wrote:
I'm also a US backer that hasn't seen anything Agent related first hand, but from what I've heard from MERCs, I like most of your implementation better. Agents were the only add-on I wish I got, but after reading more about them I'm almost glad I didn't.

Hey Wallace! Thanks for jumping into the conversation. Since things aren’t 100% set in my mind, I really appreciate the thoughts on the matter. Below I will comment on why I am proposing certain things and I’d love to get opinions.

Before I go there … Based on what I’ve seen with the Agents, I’d say McG had a great variant to Myth planned out. They discussed in KS comments and definitely grabbed my interest. Having played the base Myth for some time now (US Backer), I really looked forward to a new play variant who’s mechanic was different from all the other villains in the game. Now this is just my uneducated opinion, but I think the awesome idea during the KS turned into a couple of mini’s and monster card when McG ran out of time. Summoning these guys via quests (which everyone receiving the quest expansions gets, BTW) feels like a cop out. I’m cool with having quests summon an Agent, but I expected other, more dynamic ways, to do so. Anyway, I really think this element of the game was supposed to be more than it is today. Weather McG ever gives Agents more variety and love is anyone’s guess. My variant plays more in line with the expectation I conjured up when reading the KS update. I just rehashed some of my first post in this thread, so thanks… it was therapeutic.

FALCN120 wrote:
I personally prefer them being summoned via the Darkness Deck (because it's really easy to include a card for each Agent if you wish) versus the Quests. If it comes via quests, it'll be more along the lines of "every 2-5 games" you'll see that quest/quest-chain, opposed to potentially having to fight him in every Act (if you want his Darkness Deck card there or not).

I am pretty sure this is how I am going to play this variant. Releasing quests to summon is also something that I’ll likely do. My Story Quest that I released is basically the origin story (sort of) for my Agent. I can see chapter quests being added as well. BUT we can control the quests and when they come up, so the random variant is something I think is neat. If you don’t want chance encounters, don’t shuffle in the darkness card. Simple. Below is an example of the Agent Darkness Card I am working on. It is WIP.



FALCN120 wrote:
I also love the idea of him running away and leaving something else in his place. It also makes it much harder to game (like it is to do to Captains, Mini Bosses, Bosses) based on board placement. If you wanna wait for your Archer to kill him, while you hide behind normal minions you can try, but he may go "poof" before then.

Again this atmospheric element falls in line with what I conjured up when reading the KS comments. The line that said:
McG Comment on Agents from KS wrote:

Agents are not killed, but escape to harass the heroes again and again.

Gave me the impression that these villains were extra hard to defeat. Add to that the fact that these guys drop a card and I felt it should be fairly difficult to get these cards.

FALCN120 wrote:
To steal an idea from another thread (about variable hunting packs that can include captains), why not just roll 1d10(+2?) and that many "points" of monsters show up (minions count as 1, captains count as 3). Then you could have each Agent affiliated with a particular creature type, or just roll a FD (again stolen from the captain w/ hunting pack thread).
I feel there’s a bunch of moving parts to that solution. Right now, my Agent card simply has the Agent replaced with 2 captains (up to user) when it disappears. If people want to use the Monster card variant, it could certainly be employed. Right now I am trying to keep the mechanics as clean as possible.

FALCN120 wrote:
There is one thing I am not a fan of though, MM. I don't like the idea of you losing their cards. Using your variant, it would be "hard" to even get a card, there's already enough rnd in it.

Get the Darkness Card (1 in 11) --> Roll Darkness on FD (1 in 6) --> be able to kill the Agent (while doing other quests, dealing with other stuff on the tile) before he vanishes. Then, you have to fight your friends over who actually gets the card (if it isn't blatantly obvious who SHOULD get the card, and even then if there are two of the same Hero - have fun). All to have a 1/6 chance to lose it every time you use it. Those aren't good odds.

Good points…. I had already softened my stance on losing the card. I wasn’t convinced this was a good approach to begin with but I like the idea of making it possible to lose the card at some point. Something for discussion I suppose.

FALCN120 wrote:
It also really depends how strong the cards are and if they are generic or really only help out one class.

Right now, I have 1 Agent Hero card designed (below)



I wanted to make this first card something usable by every hero. I also wanted it to be valuable to any level character. Since it’s a tile range, it’s the best condition clear in the game.

FALCN120 wrote:
Assuming there is no limit to the number of Agent cards allowed in your deck (don't remember reading anything of that nature), I really see two "fair solutions".

That’s currently under debate. I expected the Agent card to be the one card you could have in your hero deck that increased the deck size. I have read subsequent conjecture saying it plays as though it was an advanced hero card (replacing a card). Right now, my expectation is this agent card ADDS to the deck.

FALCN120 wrote:
1) Get copies of the Agent card, and have a max of 1 unique Agent card per hero. If you fight him again, another person gets to steal a bit of his soul to gain some strength.
I am not a fan of diluting the Agent’s power by giving multiple heroes the Agent skill.

FALCN120 wrote:
2) What someone posted above: Come up with a "deck" of possible cards, draw 1, then decide who gets it. Though I still like the idea of 1 Agent Card/Hero. If a Hero takes a 2nd card from the same Agent later on, they must return the first one to the Agents "deck".
Maybe. This answers the question on what do we do on subsequent appearances and defeats. Seems a little manufactured though. This is one Bad Mutha agent! Drops up to 8 cards (factoring in bonus heroes). I don’t know... that just seems trite. Again, just my initial reaction. More thought required….
FALCN120 wrote:
Again it comes down to how strong the cards/character specific the cards are. But that's a lot of what this game is. "Yay, we beat the agent and got his card...too bad it's a "Requires - Shadows" card and we don't have a Brigand.....who's gonna take the deck filler?"

My plan was NOT to make hero specific Agent cards. Maybe that’s a naïve plan. Then again, I initially thought I only needed a single card for the Agent drop, so its much easier to stick to that plan with only a single card.

This whole Agent idea of mine needs to go through some play testing to see how it plays out. Thus far most of what I’ve done has been on paper.
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Charlie Theel
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You have some cool ideas MM.

I think I may be stealing this and modifying it a bit. I like the Darkness card idea, but I don't like your implementation. I think rolling a Darkness symbol OR a Player's Fate symbol would happen a bit too often. I'm cool with it just being a Darkness symbol to keep it a 1 in 6 chance.

I like the removing the card after it happens and I also like the fleeing idea with a fate recipe.

One thing I'd do is create a deck of Agent darkness cards (one for each agent, maybe even a few with multiple agents on them so agents could be on multiple cards possibly) and then shuffling these and adding 1 of them in each Quest. So you don't quite know which Agent may appear.

Also, I like the idea of losing the item/card. However, I think it needs to be more rare. I'd roll a Fate Die check in the Cleanup phase only when the Agent was present on the table. I really like this idea as it incentivizes you to want to face that Agent again to get it back.
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Rick Johns
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I like both your ideas about the darkness card. I might change the last part about picking a new darkness card, instead having it gain 2 AP or something else if the agent does not show up.
 
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charlest wrote:
You have some cool ideas MM.

Thanks Charlie!

charlest wrote:
I think I may be stealing this and modifying it a bit. I like the Darkness card idea, but I don't like your implementation. I think rolling a Darkness symbol OR a Player's Fate symbol would happen a bit too often. I'm cool with it just being a Darkness symbol to keep it a 1 in 6 chance.

Yeah, that’s an old version. I have changed it and it now just works on a darkness symbol. Makes sense thematically too.

charlest wrote:
One thing I'd do is create a deck of Agent darkness cards (one for each agent, maybe even a few with multiple agents on them so agents could be on multiple cards possibly) and then shuffling these and adding 1 of them in each Quest. So you don't quite know which Agent may appear.

Elaborate on this one, will ya Charlie? I’m not following the quest mechanic.
charlest wrote:
Also, I like the idea of losing the item/card. However, I think it needs to be more rare. I'd roll a Fate Die check in the Cleanup phase only when the Agent was present on the table. I really like this idea as it incentivizes you to want to face that Agent again to get it back.

That incentive was what I was going for … Your idea about checking for loss ONLY when the Agent is on the table gave me an idea.

How about adding a FD recipe to the Agent’s special ability that causes you to lose the card (or maybe roll a FD). That way it’s tied to the Agent card and not in the refresh phase where it can be forgotten.

My thoughts around WHY the Agent shows up multiple times is because they want their power back. They are showing up to retrieve it (the card), so thematically there’s a reason for random encounters.

Of course, if the Agent retrieves their card, the only way to trigger the Agent’s appearance again is via a quest OR simply inserting their darkness card into the deck. Something to think on…
 
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RAD2x wrote:
I like both your ideas about the darkness card. I might change the last part about picking a new darkness card, instead having it gain 2 AP or something else if the agent does not show up.


I've thought about this one as well and wondered if anyone would bring that up. I wanted there to be some sort of darkness result if this card is drawn - either the Agent shows up, OR something else. Adding 2 to Darkness is a good idea and doesn't add a new mechanic of drawing a second darkness card.
 
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Charlie Theel
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Quote:
Elaborate on this one, will ya Charlie? I’m not following the quest mechanic.


If I were doing these (I won't be, have no photoshop skills), I'd make a Darkness card like you did for each Agent. At the start of a Quest (story or chapter), I'd randomly shuffle my Agent Darkness Deck and draw one to shuffle into the normal Darkness Deck (without knowing which agent card I drew). That's how I'd have them randomly appear. I like the idea of not knowing which Agent may show up.


Concerning the second point about losing the card, in theory adding the Fate recipe to the Agent card is a great idea. My only issue is that it requires reprinting all of the Agents and of course modifying them.

This is all theoretical though I guess as I won't be mocking up the cards for this so I will either print off what you end up doing or just sticking with the rules as written.
 
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Here is a quick Darkness Card I threw together. But +2 AP, hmmm a new mechanic...MM we need to come up with a good one.

 
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charlest wrote:
Quote:
Elaborate on this one, will ya Charlie? I’m not following the quest mechanic.


If I were doing these (I won't be, have no photoshop skills), I'd make a Darkness card like you did for each Agent. At the start of a Quest (story or chapter), I'd randomly shuffle my Agent Darkness Deck and draw one to shuffle into the normal Darkness Deck (without knowing which agent card I drew). That's how I'd have them randomly appear. I like the idea of not knowing which Agent may show up.

I see now, thanks! Basically you decide if you want the option of encountering agents and control "who" shows up with this random insertion of the agent card into the darkness deck. Interesting idea.


charlest wrote:
Concerning the second point about losing the card, in theory adding the Fate recipe to the Agent card is a great idea. My only issue is that it requires reprinting all of the Agents and of course modifying them.

Oooh ... darn good point. I wasn't thinking about any of the original agents. Since those were paid add-ons, I'm not too comfortable uploading them as a variant either. Something to think about. I started down this path because I didn't care for how the base game worked, now we're discussing changing the entire Agent mechanic, including the base Agents. Honestly, I was being selfish and only thinking about my Agent (and possibly new ones).

I really liked the possibility of losing the card based on Agent FD roll (as an ability on the monster card)... maybe both options exist? If you have one of the base agent cards, those aren't lost. Something more to ponder...
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Ah, that makes sense. Honestly, I was only thinking about this in relation to the Agents I paid for
 
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RAD2x wrote:
Here is a quick Darkness Card I threw together. But +2 AP, hmmm a new mechanic...MM we need to come up with a good one.



Right on. I will post an update to this when I get a chance to fire up PS. Thanks Rick!
 
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Mistermannindy wrote:

Oooh ... darn good point. I wasn't thinking about any of the original agents. Since those were paid add-ons, I'm not too comfortable uploading them as a variant either. Something to think about. I started down this path because I didn't care for how the base game worked, now we're discussing changing the entire Agent mechanic, including the base Agents. Honestly, I was being selfish and only thinking about my Agent (and possibly new ones).


Didn't we mess this up when we started making new minions and mini-bosses, with new abilities and what not...?
 
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