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Subject: No single card mulligan in Android: Netrunner ? rss

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(ɹnʎʞ)
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Hey folks,

I finished reading the rulebook and the description of the mulligan appeared uncommon to me personally, as the rulebook only mentions full hand mulligans.

Are there in fact no free-to-choose single card mulligans in Android: Netrunner ?

This question may appear stupid to some, but I still wanted to ask, simply because I only knew single card mulligans before.

Thanks for your help !
 
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Rob Rob
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AFAIK, all FFG LCG. Have the same "full hand mulligan" rule.
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brian
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Kyur wrote:
Hey folks,

I finished reading the rulebook and the description of the mulligan appeared uncommon to me personally, as the rulebook only mentions full hand mulligans.

Are there in fact no free-to-choose single card mulligans in Android: Netrunner ?

This question may appear stupid to some, but I still wanted to ask, simply because I only knew single card mulligans before.

Thanks for your help !

Whole hand or nothing. You need to evaluate the whole hand to see if a mulligan is worth it or not. I think this is standard in the other LCGs by FFG as well.
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(ɹnʎʞ)
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Wow, interesting.

I'm not yet sure if I like or dislike this rule, but it's definitely interesting.

Thanks !
 
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Micheal Keane
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Are there *any* CCGs or LCGs that have anything other than a full hand mulligan?

I know there are variations but I've never seen a game that lets you pick and choose.

Actually curious.
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David Boeren
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All the card games I can think of use full-hand mulligans.
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Benny And The
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Hearthstone let's you mulligan single cards from your hand.
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Timothy D
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Well in Hearthstone there are single card mulligans. It's somewhat a CCG except in digital format.

You get a starting hand of 3 or 4 depending if you're first or second to act. Then you can choose which of the cards from your starting hand you want to keep and which you want to mulligan.
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Christopher Barnett
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ffaristocrat wrote:
Are there *any* CCGs or LCGs that have anything other than a full hand mulligan?

I know there are variations but I've never seen a game that lets you pick and choose.

Actually curious.
Hearthstone has single card mulligans if you count that as a CCG (which I do).

Nothing else I can think of comes to light though.

Edit ninja'd
 
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Micheal Keane
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Doh! I should have remembered. I only played Hearthstone briefly.
 
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Carlos Saldanha
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Hearthstone is a CCG?! shake
You can call it a digital card game or something in the mix. And would never brought it into an "analog" CCG discussion.

FFG Living Card Games all have the same rule: full hand Mulligan, one time.

M:TG has full hand Mulligan, each time draw one card less.

AEG card games all have full hand Mulligan, one time, if you use the card that allows you to take that effect. (Mulligans are not part of the rules in AEG card games).

So, I really don't see that many games allowing single-card Mulligans.
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super genius
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Paris Mulligan is the only legally supported method for sanctioned MTG tournaments but in EDH we often Partial Paris (a player may choose to put a number of cards from their hand aside face down, then draw that number of cards minus one, after which they shuffle the cards they set aside into their library.)
 
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oDESGOSTO wrote:
Hearthstone is a CCG?! :shake:
You can call it a digital card game or something in the mix. And would never brought it into an "analog" CCG discussion.


It's a game where you do deck building from your collection, some cards are rare, and the rare cards are often much better than their common counterparts, and you can buy random packs of cards ad nauseum to try to get the rare cards. Really all its missing is a singles market. If Hearthstone were an LCG instead of a CCG I would play it more.
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Mychal
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oDESGOSTO wrote:
Hearthstone is a CCG?! shake
You can call it a digital card game or something in the mix. And would never brought it into an "analog" CCG discussion.

Hearthstone is absolutely a CCG.
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Marty Kay
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Legend of the Five Rings CCG has a first turn "quasi" mulligan of putting any number of cards at the bottom of the dynasty deck and drawing that many to replace them (these aren't from your hand though, these are from the four provinces you flip up at the start of your turn).

The Spoils has a similar mechanic to L5R (put any number at bottom, draw that many) as well as a fetch resources to start game mechanic.

I can't remember the mulligan rules for the Eve CCG nor the WoW TCG, and since both are discontinued I guess it hardly matters
 
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Cal Neuvost
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oDESGOSTO wrote:
Hearthstone is a CCG?! shake
You can call it a digital card game or something in the mix. And would never brought it into an "analog" CCG discussion.

Why would you separate your discussions of card games based on whether they're digital or physical? There are differences, to be sure, but the there are far more similarities.
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Jim Sweeney
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Cardfight Vanguard (and other Bushiroad games,I believe) have a partial mulligan, as in keep what you want, replace the rest. This is important for game balance, as not getting a level 1, 2, and 3 card in the first 3 turns is a very big NPE.
 
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Funny how the collective mind works, I was just going to post today something about a variant mulligan rule for ANR.

I've been playing a lot of HearthStone (definitely CCG, btw) and I think that the partial mulligan available in that game is an excellent rule. It makes for a such better start that I wonder why designers insist on the draconian full-hand mulligan rule.
 
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fameros wrote:
I wonder why designers insist on the draconian full-hand mulligan rule.


The easier it is to get the opening hand you want, the easier it is to make combo decks work. The more randomness there is in the opening, the more flexible / generalist decks are rewarded. It's a design tradeoff, and I wouldn't call it "draconian" either way.
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Mychal
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DrTall wrote:
fameros wrote:
I wonder why designers insist on the draconian full-hand mulligan rule.


The easier it is to get the opening hand you want, the easier it is to make combo decks work. The more randomness there is in the opening, the more flexible / generalist decks are rewarded. It's a design tradeoff, and I wouldn't call it "draconian" either way.

+1 to this. I sometimes wish you could keep one piece of ICE before a mulligan, but I definitely prefer a full mulligan to picking what to replace.
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Jacob Morris
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I think the problem with mulligans in ANR is not the quality of mulligan but the quantity. In Magic, you can (sort of) mulligan infinitely, but it balances out by giving you a smaller hand size each time you mulligan. Netrunner might benefit from a mulligan rule set rather than just "you get to mulligan once".

For example, when I was adapting BSO for ANR, I introduced an additional mulligan rule on the Corp side: if you draw a starting hand with five or more total AP in it, you may reveal your entire hand to get a free mulligan. Other than shenannery that was made possible by NEXT Design (which by no means broke the game anyway), this worked rather well.
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Gregory Pettigrew
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fameros wrote:
I wonder why designers insist on the draconian full-hand mulligan rule.


This word, I do not think it means what you think it means.
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Anssi Niemi
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fameros wrote:
Funny how the collective mind works, I was just going to post today something about a variant mulligan rule for ANR.

I've been playing a lot of HearthStone (definitely CCG, btw) and I think that the partial mulligan available in that game is an excellent rule. It makes for a such better start that I wonder why designers insist on the draconian full-hand mulligan rule.


I played the German Highlander format in MTG for years, where in addition to the normal Paris mulligan you had a one-use thing where you could put aside X cards from your hand, draw X cards from your deck and then shuffle the put-aside cards back into your deck.

The end result is that the pressure to have a good opener increased a ton. You could just jam together decks of good stuff, oh I drew this too expensive thing, ship it away and just curve out perfectly.

Breaking serve against that kind of power is really, really hard. You could just ship out cards you intended to cheat into play for example, so they could be included at basically no cost.

Even the best full hand mulligans typically have some imperfections to them, so overall you probably end up increasing the amount of keepable hands.
 
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jakodrako wrote:
I think the problem with mulligans in ANR is not the quality of mulligan but the quantity. In Magic, you can (sort of) mulligan infinitely, but it balances out by giving you a smaller hand size each time you mulligan. Netrunner might benefit from a mulligan rule set rather than just "you get to mulligan once".


I agree completely. I think something that would work and would balance well is that you get 1 free mulligan, and after that you may loose 1 credit from your starting pool to mulligan again, etc. This would allow the players to get more than just 1 mulligan, but it would still put them at a disadvantage at the start of the game for taking too many. Could be interesting.
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Daniel Wray
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Honestly, because Netrunner places more importance on player skill and bluffing, I don't want to change the mulligan rules.

You have three or four actions to use each turn if you didn't get the cards you need. Playing through the hand you were dealt is part of the game.

How many times have you heard someone say "I started with a handful of agendas and still managed to win"?

It's part of what makes this game so awesome.
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