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Subject: Failed Evade Checks... rss

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Brian Peters
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I've been wondering for awhile what exactly happens when you fail an evade check. Is the result exactly the same as it is when you fail a combat check, or do you just take the damage?

the main question here, of course, arises with the many creatures that cause special effects when they hit, not the least of which is the nightgaunt.

so i'm wondering how everyone else plays it, as i've found the rules to be somewhat unclear.
 
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Shane Is Board
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don't know if it's official, but yeah, have always played the damage and/or effect take place...otherwise, there would be no negative to attempting to evade some things (stupid shambler)
 
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Magnus Hernegran
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Do one only get health/special effect damage when losing an evade chek? Or does one have to make a horror check as well? What I mean is when there's a big fighter like the gangster, with low sanity and not much will... In some cases he could make an evade check, hoping to lose, to avoid losing sanity?
 
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Matthew M
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Horror check always occurs first, regardless of the choice to fight or flee. Regardless of success or failure, only one Horror check is made.

Once the horror check has been resolved the character can fight or flee as desired, taking combat damage for any failed checks and choosing again if combat is not over.

-MMM
 
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Magnus Hernegran
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Octavian wrote:
Horror check always occurs first, regardless of the choice to fight or flee. Regardless of success or failure, only one Horror check is made.

Once the horror check has been resolved the character can fight or flee as desired, taking combat damage for any failed checks and choosing again if combat is not over.

-MMM


Oh... Ooops blush I've read the rules a dozen times, and still I somehow managed to miss that one... Makes more sense too =; )
 
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Octavian wrote:
Horror check always occurs first, regardless of the choice to fight or flee.

Well, not when the evade check is being done during movement, right?

That is, I'm trying to move through a space containing a monster. I do an Evade check. The way I understand it is, if I fail, I suffer the monster's combat damage; then combat begins, starting with the horror check.
 
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Jeff Hoffman
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Horror Checks only occur when you enter combat.

However, when you have (or start/end) movement in the same space as a monster, you can CHOOSE to enter combat or attempt to Evade. If the evade succeeds, you can continue movement. If the Evade check fails, the monster immediately does its combat damage to you and you enter combat beginning with the Horror check.

There are some creatures that do not deal any stamina damage when you fail a Combat check and some other effect takes place. However, if you fail an Evade check with one of these creatures, you do NOT do the effect because it only occurs when you fail a COMBAT check, not an evade. So, you would take no damage, but you still enter combat as normal.

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Gamemaster wrote:
However, if you fail an Evade check with one of these creatures, you do NOT do the effect because it only occurs when you fail a COMBAT check, not an evade.

Hmm, the rules don't give the impression that the special ability doesn't apply to a failed evade. P. 15 says, "Each time an investigator fails to evade or defeat a monster, the monster deals its combat damage to the investigator. ... Note that some monsters have abilities that add some special effect to their combat damage. For example, the Nightgaunt drops the investigator through the nearest open gate instead of causing the investigator to lose Stamina tokens." That sounds to me like those special effects are considered part of the monster's combat damage.
 
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Mark K.
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Man, I completely missed that monster deal damage if the invesitgators fail their evade checks. Thanks for the correction!
 
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Tristan Hall
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kuhrusty wrote:
Gamemaster wrote:
However, if you fail an Evade check with one of these creatures, you do NOT do the effect because it only occurs when you fail a COMBAT check, not an evade.

Hmm, the rules don't give the impression that the special ability doesn't apply to a failed evade. P. 15 says, "Each time an investigator fails to evade or defeat a monster, the monster deals its combat damage to the investigator. ... Note that some monsters have abilities that add some special effect to their combat damage. For example, the Nightgaunt drops the investigator through the nearest open gate instead of causing the investigator to lose Stamina tokens." That sounds to me like those special effects are considered part of the monster's combat damage.


I'd say that's dead on. There's no reason to assume a monster would only do some kind of minor damage to an investigator who failed an evade check. And the example provided is a good one - what would the nightgaunt actually do then?
No, the monster just deals its damage as normal if you fail an evade check.
 
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Luca Iennaco
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ninjadorg wrote:
the monster just deals its damage as normal if you fail an evade check.

We always played it in this way as well (it makes more sense both as a gameplay choice and as a thematic interpretation... what else do you need? ).
 
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Jeff Hoffman
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OK, I now agree that a special effect, such as Nightgaunt dropping you into a nearby gate, is part of the Combat damage.

In a game that divides skill checks from special skill checks, you can see where the confusion is.

The Black Man, a Mask monster, does not have any Stamina damage listed. So, if an investigator fails an evade check, is that investigator devoured? Or, does nothing happen except enter combat? In which case, you must pass a Luck check before the Horror check.

I would guess the latter which would mean that failing an evade check against a Nightgaunt or a Dimensional Shambler has immediate consequences, whereas, The Black Man does not.
 
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Tommy Dean
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I don't have my game at hand to look at the monsters...but I wonder if Mask monsters are similair to Cultists in that they draw their stats from the GOO. So perhaps if you look at the GOO who allows Mask monsters to be in the cup there will be a reference to the combat damage.
 
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Luca Iennaco
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I agree that the Black Man is a very special case.
If you fail the Evade check, he spots you, but being the strange creature that he is, rather than inflicting some damage (or fancy effect like a Nightigaunt), he speaks to you and... the Luck check determines the result.
However, this means that there's no penalty when you try to evade him and fail; so you could choose that a failed Evade check means being devoured (ouch!). Very harsh, but dealing with the incarnation of an AO isn't supposed to be easy, is it?

ozjesting wrote:
So perhaps if you look at the GOO who allows Mask monsters to be in the cup there will be a reference to the combat damage.

No, that's not the case (Nyarlathotep just instructs you to add the "Mask"s in the cup, while the Cultists gain "Endless").
 
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Tristan Hall
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Gamemaster wrote:
The Black Man, a Mask monster, does not have any Stamina damage listed. So, if an investigator fails an evade check, is that investigator devoured? Or, does nothing happen except enter combat? In which case, you must pass a Luck check before the Horror check.

I would guess the latter which would mean that failing an evade check against a Nightgaunt or a Dimensional Shambler has immediate consequences, whereas, The Black Man does not.


That's a bloody good question! I like the idea of instant Devouring but it is a bit harsh. Good one for Kevin and the FFG boys I think . . .
 
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