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Subject: Help me find our next 2p meaty point salad! rss

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Captain Spaulding
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Imperial Settlers
Lewis & Clark
London (first edition)
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Mark Jackson
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If you want another feld game I highly recommend Trajan.
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Phil Hendrickson
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You might want to look into Targi and Village.

Targi is strictly a 2-player game, small box and not expensive. It has a pretty cool mechanism for placement of workers, and has interesting decisions for a game that is fairly light and small.

Village is for 2-4 players, and is on the scale of Castles of Burgundy or Bruges. I like the way it allows you a few chances to get the things you need, but there is still a tightness of choices. It's quite fun, and has an expansion or two to add freshness if you keep playing it over the long term.

Happy gaming!
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Alison Mandible
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Troyes is very, very Feldian, but with more variable setup than many of his games. It's best with 3, but absolutely worthwhile with 2 if you're looking for "like Feld, but not by him".

Eight-Minute Empire: Legends is great with 2 (there's a 'dummy player' but it's more like "each player gets to place 5 neutral armies") and feels very point-salad-y to me, though some might disagree.
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Mark Jackson
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DrumPhil wrote:
You might want to look into Targi


I'm definitely going to pick this one up once it comes back in print. I think the reprint is scheduled for this fall.
 
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Jacob Walker
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Since you clearly like Feld so much, I'd probably just look at a few of his other designs:

Trajan - It's definitely on the heavier end of Feld games, but the Mancala mechanic is really interesting. It's my 2nd favorite Feld.
Macao - This might be a try before you buy situation. People seem to either absolutely love it or absolutely hate it. I for one am on the love end of that spectrum. My favorite Feld by far.
Rialto Bruges, Amerigo, and Bora Bora are all excellent games (though I've only played Amerigo once), but I think that Rialto is Feld's best game from last year. A little more focused than most of his games, with the bulk of scoring coming from the area control mechanic, but it still provides you with lots of other opportunities to pull in extra points. Those other avenues for getting points make the game work surprisingly well for 2 players, not something I can typically say of area control games.

But if you are definitely looking for something from other designers:

Vikings - I've played this only once, but I liked it a lot. Neat little game that lets you pursue a lot of different strategies.
Tokaido - Not sure this game has a whole lot of staying power, but it's just extraordinarily pleasant to play. Nearly everything you do will result in some kind of points, and it looks incredible.
Glen More - This is a fantastic game, with a lot more interaction than your typical point salad. Might be difficult to find it at a reasonable price though.
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Byron Campbell
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Ah_Pook wrote:
If you want another feld game I highly recommend Trajan.


I agree. I've only got 3 Feld games, and I've played a few others, but Trajan is my favorite. It's also different enough from any others you own that it would be worth having. (I guess it's most similar to Amerigo, if I had to compare.)

I'm also super excited about AquaSphere.

As for non-Feldian games, check out Legacy: The Testament of Duke de Crecy. It plays great with 2 players and definitely has a point salad vibe. You are trying to establish a legacy through several generations by arranging marriages, having children, buying mansions, fulfilling missions, etc. Having lots of children is the main path toward VP, but there are a ton of other options to focus on with your other actions.

I just got Lewis & Clark, mentioned above, and am having a lot of fun with it, but I'm not sure I'd agree it's point salady. Still a strong euro.

EDIT: Another +1 for Tokaido. Some people complain that it feels as though you have no choices to make, but it is a definite point salad game, strong with 2 (in fact, there are more strategic options with 2 than with 3+), and a great couple's game. You can try it online for free at boardgamearena.
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Nations or if you to really step out go with Twilight Struggle
 
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Michael F
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Another vote for Trajan. It should be pictured in the dictionary next to the term "Point Salad."

Tokaido is a good suggestion also. It's fairly light, and you use a dummy player at 2p, but everything you do gives you points.

Lords of Waterdeep feels like a point salad to me also. Everything you do helps towards completing quests or scoring you points at the end.

 
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Chris
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Whilst not the biggest Point Salad game ever, there are a lot of great twisty turny ways to score big in...

BRASS

It's a great step up in weight without just getting more complex by virtue of more choices.
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Chris
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Analog_Gamer wrote:
I would love to get Brass: Lancashire, but is it good as a 2-player game? I know the variant ask for you to cover some of the playing board, but does that make it "fidgety"?


No, it really doesn't you just put a coin (or something) over a few key locations, have some cards removed, don't use the $1 market spaces, and off you go. It plays just fine IMHO. You can play it at http://brass.orderofthehammer.com/ to try it out. It's great, and so different from most common popular euros. just ace. Way way up there in the rankings yet from it's age gets talked about very little these days. but it's there for a reason.
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We play it with 2p on the whole board, we just adjust the number of cards we get (we don't mind a little less jostling for space on the board; we don't build over each other).
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Michael Dillenbeck
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Analog_Gamer wrote:
I would love to get Brass: Lancashire, but is it good as a 2-player game? I know the variant ask for you to cover some of the playing board, but does that make it "fidgety"?


...or you can print out the Brass: 2 Player Board Hi Quality 2 player boards. Alternatively, you could also go with Age of Industry which is designed for 2-5, but I like the two part game of Brass (canal era with level 2+ buildings to gain a foothold in the second half of the game).

Brass 2-player variant is tied for the #6 spot of plays so far this year with 6 plays, while Amerigo is only at 3 plays so far. My wife really likes that you don't tear down each other, and if you do use their stuff they benefit.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Its not a victory point salad game, but I highly recommend The Pillars of the Earth: Builders Duel. Its not a victory point salad, but is a highly entertaining Feld game. You have 12 turns to build a building. You build it by putting 3 specified goods on it, and each building has 3 cards (9 placed resources total). There is a 27 card A deck and 27 card B deck. You go A-B-A-B dealing out a 3x3 grid of cards. Player 1 places a horizontal, vertical, or diagonal line of 3 tokens to choose 3 cards to activate, player 2 then does the same and must cross the first player's tokens at one and only one point. Cards give you events, raw resources, gold, the ability to pay to process raw resources into specific goods, the Player 1 token, or influence tokens. Influence tokens are coins marked with 0/5, 1/4, or 2/3 and are flipped like coins when trying to fight over the required contested cards. If no one completes their building, the one with the most completed sections wins.

Its a small portable game for 2 that has an incredible depth of strategy to it. The 12 turns of 3x3 cards using two different 27 card decks gives you some ability to predict what will come out with uncertainty of how it will fall, making it a game with a decent amount of replay value.

I avoided this game as a The Pillars of the Earth fan, but am glad I was given it one Christmas. It is a challenging and fun game that isn't utterly random and has good replay value.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Puerto Rico with the 2 player variant is also fairly good, as is San Juan.

Seasons is also another fun victory point game. 9 card drafting at the start (or using the recommended prebuilt deck) and dice drafting make this game rich in decisions on your path to victory.

My last "multiple paths to victory" is an odd suggestion - Star Trek: Fleet Captains. This game is besmirched for its component quality, but I think it is unjustified. The game seems price, but there are a few factors to consider: when counting the location hex deck (they are not tiles, a big criticism, but it is so you can easily shuffle 50+ of them) it has almost the same number of cards as Dominion, it comes with a large amount of tokens, and it comes with 24 Clix-based ship figures (12 Federation and 12 Klingon). You draft ships based on fleet size, which is the victory points for the game, and the ships give you the makeup of your mission cards (influence to explore/take territory/build installations, combat for war type actions, and science to analyze nebulae and star systems or experiment with warp engines). Very high replay value due to the modular board and fleet composition, and you can with without firing a single shot. Heck, there is even a basic pre-game deck building element (each faction has ten decks of 10 cards, and you choose 4 of those to make your command deck to play).

This game is rich in theme and different each play, has wonderful table appearance, and for people willing to tweak can have custom scenarios made. The cards cover the original series, the Next Generation, DS9, and Voyager series - and if you are a little bit of a trekkie it is a blast to play.

I know a lot of these aren't abstract games, but they all share something in common - multiple paths to victory. I don't expect them all to appeal to you, but hopefully you find one or two things that you like.
 
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Goldfinger
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+ 1 Seasons

You might want to check out

7 Wonders
Assyria
 
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Justin Fuhrmann
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+1 Troyes
+1 Trajan
+1 London

Through the Ages
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Jonathan Challis
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Trajan
Macao
London (first edition)
Troyes
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Jesse
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Mr_Bickman wrote:


Can't comment on London, but neither of the other two are remotely point salad games. In fact, Lewis and Clark doesn't even have points; it's a racing game.

Anyway, too bad it's 2-player only. I'd say Terra Mystica would fit the bill, but I'd never play it with fewer than three--and you'd have to twist my arm to play with three.

With the 2-player restriction, I'd think Trajan would be okay. It'd be considerably better with 3-4. I'd think there'd be little to no tension in the construction or military actions due to them being wide open. Even shipping would suffer with fewer cards hitting the discard piles. It'd still be a solid a game, though.

Through the Ages would maybe fit the bill okay too. However, it is HEAVY. Really heavy. And really long (at least 2 hours with 2 players). Also, very confrontational and sometimes punishing. You can play with a peaceful variant, but that sucks out quite a bit of the tension in the game. It'd still be fun, though.
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Captain Spaulding
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atomheartmother wrote:
Mr_Bickman wrote:


Can't comment on London, but neither of the other two are remotely point salad games. In fact, Lewis and Clark doesn't even have points; it's a racing game.

Anyway, too bad it's 2-player only. I'd say Terra Mystica would fit the bill, but I'd never play it with fewer than three--and you'd have to twist my arm to play with three.

With the 2-player restriction, I'd think Trajan would be okay. It'd be considerably better with 3-4. I'd think there'd be little to no tension in the construction or military actions due to them being wide open. Even shipping would suffer with fewer cards hitting the discard piles. It'd still be a solid a game, though.

Through the Ages would maybe fit the bill okay too. However, it is HEAVY. Really heavy. And really long (at least 2 hours with 2 players). Also, very confrontational and sometimes punishing. You can play with a peaceful variant, but that sucks out quite a bit of the tension in the game. It'd still be fun, though.


But Lewis & Clark, with all the methods for acquiring resources, and converting those resources, has the same feel as a point salad game IMO, and I actually think it's a better worker placement than any of the Uwe Rosenberg Harvest games. It's certainly more of a point salad than Through The Ages, which is basically a tableau builder.
 
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Jesse
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Mr_Bickman wrote:
atomheartmother wrote:
Mr_Bickman wrote:


Can't comment on London, but neither of the other two are remotely point salad games. In fact, Lewis and Clark doesn't even have points; it's a racing game.

Anyway, too bad it's 2-player only. I'd say Terra Mystica would fit the bill, but I'd never play it with fewer than three--and you'd have to twist my arm to play with three.

With the 2-player restriction, I'd think Trajan would be okay. It'd be considerably better with 3-4. I'd think there'd be little to no tension in the construction or military actions due to them being wide open. Even shipping would suffer with fewer cards hitting the discard piles. It'd still be a solid a game, though.

Through the Ages would maybe fit the bill okay too. However, it is HEAVY. Really heavy. And really long (at least 2 hours with 2 players). Also, very confrontational and sometimes punishing. You can play with a peaceful variant, but that sucks out quite a bit of the tension in the game. It'd still be fun, though.


But Lewis & Clark, with all the methods for acquiring resources, and converting those resources, has the same feel as a point salad game IMO, and I actually think it's a better worker placement than any of the Uwe Rosenberg Harvest games. It's certainly more of a point salad than Through The Ages, which is basically a tableau builder.


If we were basing the definition of point salad on how much a game incorporates resource collection and management, it'd be inclusive of 80% of Euro games. Lewis and Clark doesn't at all feel like a point salad game. With a point salad game, there is the feeling that everything you do gains you points or sets you up to gain big points. It gives you a feeling of accomplishment and progress. Lewis and Clark is in many ways the opposite. The progress you make in the race is most often slight with occasional big bursts, only to be pulled back when setting camp. Not only does it feel completely different from a point salad game (like CoB or Trajan), it doesn't even have points.

I'd also think that many would take offense to the assertion that L&C does worker placement than any Uwe harvest game. The worker placement in L&C seems like an afterthought in what is otherwise primarily a card drafting and hand management game.

Saying that TTA isn't a point salad game because it has tableau building is like saying Trajan isn't a point salad game because it's a mancala game. I'm not saying it's a pure example of point salad (or even a terribly great example), but it does have many, many ways to earn points leaving the player to find the most efficient path to points. It does have a feeling of accomplishment and progress, though.
 
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atomheartmother wrote:
Mr_Bickman wrote:
atomheartmother wrote:


Can't comment on London, but neither of the other two are remotely point salad games. In fact, Lewis and Clark doesn't even have points; it's a racing game.

Anyway, too bad it's 2-player only. I'd say Terra Mystica would fit the bill, but I'd never play it with fewer than three--and you'd have to twist my arm to play with three.

With the 2-player restriction, I'd think Trajan would be okay. It'd be considerably better with 3-4. I'd think there'd be little to no tension in the construction or military actions due to them being wide open. Even shipping would suffer with fewer cards hitting the discard piles. It'd still be a solid a game, though.

Through the Ages would maybe fit the bill okay too. However, it is HEAVY. Really heavy. And really long (at least 2 hours with 2 players). Also, very confrontational and sometimes punishing. You can play with a peaceful variant, but that sucks out quite a bit of the tension in the game. It'd still be fun, though.


But Lewis & Clark, with all the methods for acquiring resources, and converting those resources, has the same feel as a point salad game IMO, and I actually think it's a better worker placement than any of the Uwe Rosenberg Harvest games. It's certainly more of a point salad than Through The Ages, which is basically a tableau builder.


atomheartmother wrote:
If we were basing the definition of point salad on how much a game incorporates resource collection and management, it'd be inclusive of 80% of Euro games. Lewis and Clark doesn't at all feel like a point salad game. With a point salad game, there is the feeling that everything you do gains you points or sets you up to gain big points. It gives you a feeling of accomplishment and progress. Lewis and Clark is in many ways the opposite. The progress you make in the race is most often slight with occasional big bursts, only to be pulled back when setting camp. Not only does it feel completely different from a point salad game (like CoB or Trajan), it doesn't even have points.


Okay, good point.

atomheartmother wrote:


I'd also think that many would take offense to the assertion that L&C does worker placement than any Uwe harvest game. The worker placement in L&C seems like an afterthought in what is otherwise primarily a card drafting and hand management game.


Disagree. The worker placement aspect in L&C is half the game, and Agricola, unless you're playing the family game, is all about hand management and timing when to play your cards.

atomheartmother wrote:

Saying that TTA isn't a point salad game because it has tableau building is like saying Trajan isn't a point salad game because it's a mancala game. I'm not saying it's a pure example of point salad (or even a terribly great example), but it does have many, many ways to earn points leaving the player to find the most efficient path to points. It does have a feeling of accomplishment and progress, though.


Again, not sure how this is so different than L&C, which also has many ways to earn points, leaving the player to find the most efficient path possible.
 
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Byron Campbell
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Not to derail the thread further, but I wouldn't classify Lewis & Clark or Through The Ages as point salad games. Lewis & Clark definitely has multiple ways to "gain points" (proceed forward on the track), but they tend to involve many individual steps before they pay off, whereas point salad games tend to reward you with a small amount of points for every discrete action.

Through The Ages, with the Corruption and Famine mechanics, not to mention Wars and Aggression, feels like it has more ways to LOSE points than to gain them. Among Stefan Feld games, it's most like In the Year of the Dragon, which can feel very punishing/demanding compared with something like Castles of Burgundy.
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