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Subject: Weapon confusion: just how many targets are affected by each use rss

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M.C.Crispy
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In this post Sean says that "Only the turret, diesel's gun, and a grenade effect everyone in the area" and also that each Energy expended by the Laser Rifle allows one shot at one target (so two 'shots' can be individually targeted). All this leaves me confused. I thought I understood how weapons work, but now I'm not so confident. Here's how I think they all work, please correct me where I'm wrong.

Sonic Grenade: each dice thrown targets everyone in the Sector+Zone. All wounds generated affect all Zothren and Crew in the S/Z. This means that rolling three wounds kills all Zothren present.

Turret Cannon & Heavy Blaster: Each dice thrown is 'targeted' after you roll the dice, so all wounds generated are distributed as desired amongst Zothren in the target S/Z (I really think that Quadrant, Sector and Zone should have been used instead of Sector, Zone, Sector+Zone respectively)

Blaster & Photon Gun: these guns affect a single target per attack action.

Laser Pistol & Laser Rifle: each die can be individually targeted. In effect each spent energy is a single shot fired at a target.

What I'm slightly worried about is Sean's statement about Grenade/Heavy Blaster/Turret Cannon: I read that as saying they all work the same as the Grenade, but I don't think that is what he meant and that my descriptions above are correct. Does anyone have a different view?

It doesn't help that the phrase 'auto-fire' is used on a card (and only on that card) but never defined in the rules. It would have helped to have had the Auto-Fire keyword on both the Turret Cannon and the Heavy Blaster.
 
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Dave
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On the same topic, are the turret and grenades both considered ranged attacks? If so, they would not be able to target tunnelers but could be affected by Allie's skill card (can't remember which one). Is that right?

I really think the game has great potential, but the number of confusing rules has kept me from playing a full game confident I got everything right. There are so many gray areas. For example, Jake Comet's card that lets another player change a die specifically says that it may even be used on Alien dice, but Ivan's card that lets a player change a die to Engineering doesn't include that note. Does that mean it cannot be used on Alien dice? That doesn't seem like the intent, but then why include the clarification on Comet's card?

I agree with your comment on another thread that it seems like the game wasn't blind tested. Sean and Richard have been great about answering questions here on the Geek, and hopefully the FAQ helps, but the rules really could have been tightened up significantly.
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Richard Launius
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Sonic Grenade: Each dice thrown targets everyone in the Sector+Zone. All wounds generated affect all Zothren and Crew in the S/Z. This means that rolling three wounds kills all Zothren present.

Your description is correct. Each wound rolled is applied to all Aliens and Crewmen in the zone (which is limited to a sector/zone), so 3 successful wound rolls would kill all Aliens in the Sector, including Tunnellers that can be hit by grenades.

Turret Cannon & Heavy Blaster: Each dice thrown is 'targeted' after you roll the dice, so all wounds generated are distributed as desired amongst Zothren in the target S/Z (I really think that Quadrant, Sector and Zone should have been used instead of Sector, Zone, Sector+Zone respectively)

Correct, you apply the hits as you wish to the Sector/Zone as you wish.

Not really sure why you think Quadrant should be used in the description, everything refers to Sector and Zone in the game which to me at least seems pretty descriptive and easy to execute.


Blaster & Photon Gun: these guns affect a single target per attack action.


Correct - choose your target in advance. All non-automatic ranged weapons require the target to be a single target, identified before rolling dice.

Laser Pistol & Laser Rifle: each die can be individually targeted. In effect each spent energy is a single shot fired at a target.


While I do not have the cards in front of me to check (been on the road all week), these weapons only fire at 1 target at a time, and the energy spent increases the odds of hitting that target, not multiple targets as the automatic weapons do.

What I'm slightly worried about is Sean's statement about Grenade/Heavy Blaster/Turret Cannon: I read that as saying they all work the same as the Grenade, but I don't think that is what he meant and that my descriptions above are correct. Does anyone have a different view?

I believe that Sean's statement is meant to clarify that the grenades, the auto-turret cannon and the Heavy blaster pick a sector & zone, then roll dice and after rolling apply the damage as desired. They all share that aspect of damage distribution, while other ranged weapons attack a single target per time fired and that target is picked prior to rolling the dice.

It doesn't help that the phrase 'auto-fire' is used on a card (and only on that card) but never defined in the rules. It would have helped to have had the Auto-Fire keyword on both the Turret Cannon and the Heavy Blaster.

I agree, this could have been more clearly defined. We will make sure and include it in the FAQ.
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Richard Launius
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On the same topic, are the turret and grenades both considered ranged attacks?


The Turret Cannon is a ranged attack and cannot target tunnellers.

Grenadesare not ranged attacks and hit everything in the sector it is thrown.


I really think the game has great potential, but the number of confusing rules has kept me from playing a full game confident I got everything right. There are so many gray areas. For example, Jake Comet's card that lets another player change a die specifically says that it may even be used on Alien dice, but Ivan's card that lets a player change a die to Engineering doesn't include that note. Does that mean it cannot be used on Alien dice? That doesn't seem like the intent, but then why include the clarification on Comet's card?


Jake's card does allow any die icon to be changed, including an Alien die, but since the notation on Ivan's card does not state that, alien dice remain locked for him. It is not a big deal if players house rule it to apply to all, but the cards define themselves like that with the rule that alien dice are locked (as noted in the rules) unless special cards enable them to be changed.

I agree with your comment on another thread that it seems like the game wasn't blind tested. Sean and Richard have been great about answering questions here on the Geek, and hopefully the FAQ helps, but the rules really could have been tightened up significantly
.

While I agree that the rules could have been tightened up and an FAQ will be developed soon to address questions, and hopefully some items better defined if the game reprints, I do want to state that the game was blind tested, in fact tested many ways.

One thing that often is talked about after a game comes out is the testing with the thought that testing was not complete, or not enough of it. One thing I think people often overlook is that even if we playtest the game 100 times with various groups, we have feedback from 300 - 500 people on various things. The issues found are addressed, but then the game comes out and all of a sudden if you sell 1,000 copies (or more, this is just an example) and each is being played for the first time you now have 3,000 to 5,000 people looking at the game, each differently with various backgrounds and evaluation processes that raise new issues that previous players may not have shared. All I can tell you is that all games are tested at various levels and this game has been tested for almost 3 years with changes evolving in the process, the majority of testing the last year by Sean's contacts. Having said that, I continue to try and learn to tighten my designs because I seldom have issues that are raised in the questions in the FAQ of my games, but see value in much of what the players request clarification. So, I am working toward better defined rules, consistent terms, and providing clearing information in the rules so that less questions arise when the game comes out.

In any event, I always recommend that players dive in and play the game. If questions emerge, house rule until you can get an answer, but keep in mind that with one of my cooperative games, you can never cheat the board, so go with what makes sense and is fun for you and your group. Then you can ask questions and I will clarify as best I can, and work to make future games more clear at the same time.

Thanks again for buying and playing Alien Uprising. I truly appreciate your support.

Richard
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M.C.Crispy
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Thanks for the response Richard, I appreciate the support that you and Sean are giving the community. I really like AU, I supported the Kickstarter campaign, and while I have some issues with the "hardware" of the game, I really like the game itself - which is why I want to ensure that I understand how it is designed to be played. There's a massive amount of replayability in the three boards and 7 characters along with the scenarios, so I want to invest time up front in getting it right so I get the best out of all the current (and - I suspect - future) content.
Richard Launius wrote:
Not really sure why you think Quadrant should be used in the description, everything refers to Sector and Zone in the game which to me at least seems pretty descriptive and easy to execute.
It's because "Zone" is an overloaded term. In some situations it is used to mean the intersection of Sector and Zone where an object can be located (almost like a grid reference) and in some situations it means the "ring" around the board at a certain distance from the ship. Using Quadrant to replace Sector, Sector to indicate the "distance from the ship" and Zone to indicate the individual area on the board where something is located removes the need for that overloading, thereby eliminating any ambiguity. (I accept that you don't find it a problem, it's your game and you've been playing it for a long time, but it keeps tripping me up)

Quote:
Laser Pistol & Laser Rifle: each die can be individually targeted. In effect each spent energy is a single shot fired at a target.

While I do not have the cards in front of me to check (been on the road all week), these weapons only fire at 1 target at a time, and the energy spent increases the odds of hitting that target, not multiple targets as the automatic weapons do.
Ah, so I got that wrong. Thanks for the correction. Cool.

Quote:
It doesn't help that the phrase 'auto-fire' is used on a card (and only on that card) but never defined in the rules. It would have helped to have had the Auto-Fire keyword on both the Turret Cannon and the Heavy Blaster.

I agree, this could have been more clearly defined. We will make sure and include it in the FAQ.
Good to hear that you are building an FAQ, I was about to start a thread for a "living FAQ" so I could collect the clarifications that are being provided. Maybe it's still worth doing while we wait for the FAQ.
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sean brown

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mccrispy,

I would LOVE IT if you would be still willing to start a living FAQ for Alien Uprising! It would be super helpful to Richard and I and I would be happy to give you credit in the next printing of the game for the FAQ if that helps entice you?

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M.C.Crispy
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onekccs wrote:
mccrispy,

I would LOVE IT if you would be still willing to start a living FAQ for Alien Uprising! It would be super helpful to Richard and I and I would be happy to give you credit in the next printing of the game for the FAQ if that helps entice you?

OK, I need no further incentive than a request from the designer/publisher! I'll get started.
 
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sean brown

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That is most excellent! Thank you very much kind sir!
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