Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
46 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Android: Netrunner» Forums » General

Subject: Anyone else find playing against noise extremely boring? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Grish Noren
msg tools
Avatar
mbmb
It's not that you can't beat it. Occasionally the cards line up and you're fine because you get a really good hand and rush out a bit. But on other days they manage to just sit back and snipe with their AI breakers while they deck you.

Noise feels like its a large part of the problem with the metagame because I feel like I'm being forced into playing fast advance to a degree. And there are the games where you just don't get a jackson so they run archives and win without much invested in to the game.

Most of their turns are robotic too. Sell viruses, Draw 2 cards, Drop viruses, maybe gain money if necessary?

In some ways this feels worse for the game than the NEH identity. NEH wouldn't be bonkers without a series of cards coming together; but Noise is just... the card's ability kicking you in the balls over and over.

I'm not a huge fan.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Game Junkie
Spain
Madrid
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mb
1. Have you tried playing _with_ him? I don't feel playing Noise is robotic. On the contrary, it is a lot of fun because of the many choices you have.

2. There are several specific cards that counter Noise, like Archived Memories, Jackson Howard, Cyberdex Trial, Cerebral Static, Targeted Marketing, Shipment from Mirrormorph(!)... And there are more in the works, such as Hades Fragment or Chronos Project.

3. Noise early game usually sucks, so if the Corp manages to score 1 or 2 agendas, they will be in a good position to win the game.

I don't know about your meta, but in mine Noise had not seen play in a long, long time. I am glad he is competitive again.
21 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Grish Noren
msg tools
Avatar
mbmb
I just got done with a game where as the corp I had 40 credits and couldn't open a window because Noise also had 40 credits with AI on the board. Used all three jacksons. I was at match point and simply could not score. He ran maybe 2xs the whole game. It was the definition of uninteractive.

The cards you named are all wonderful, but only cerebral static perhaps could be considered a "counter" to noise. Jackson is a delay. Archived Memories is utility, but doesn't gain you much. Targeted Marketing: worthless when money doesn't matter. Shipment from mirrormorph. Maybe good at the beginning of the game, but that's a lot of resources.

Hades Fragment might be useful, but as a 1 of its not going to be very reliable; its also going to be hard to score with the AI shennanigans & parasites floating around. Chronos Project, again, if it can be scored will be very helpful, but recursion is only pseudo necessary to a noise deck. Wyldside is the real gravy train. So long as there are two viruses in hand/discard noise is happy.

This isn't NEH where you still have to interact by playing ice, getting money, making decisions about what to install and when its safe to score. This is merely dropping cards and waiting, and waiting, and waiting. Maybe looking at archives once or twice. Maybe digging R&D or HQ if its vulnerable; but not really having to make an investment into any of those things.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
General Norris
Spain
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
I think the newer versions of Noise are extremely fun to play against. They'll switch from attacking HQ, to R&D to HQ again then Archives then R&D, keeping the corp on its toes. I really like that.

And Noise decks that just try to mill aren't the good ones. You give up being able to threaten with Nerve Agent, Medium and Imp if you are making runs with Crypsis instead of playing some Corroders and some Knights. And even if you use Crypsis, relying on the random mill and the Corp not having a Jackson sitting in their remote is a good way to lose.

I also don't understand why he would push you to play Fast Advance given he's very good against it, specially NBN.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Game Junkie
Spain
Madrid
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mb
Of course there will be games where Noise randomly trashes several of your agendas, but you make it sound like he is unbeatable. He will not win by just waiting, on the contrary he will lose if he waits too long. That is why I asked you if you had playing him (not against him). I don't think he is as good as you think he is.

If you think Wyldside is the problem, try tagging him. If he is busy drawing and setting up, try to score in the meantime.

But of course, to each his own.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
El-ad David Amir
United States
New York
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
gumOnShoe wrote:
Noise feels like its a large part of the problem with the metagame because I feel like I'm being forced into playing fast advance to a degree. And there are the games where you just don't get a jackson so they run archives and win without much invested in to the game.

I strongly disagree. In fact, I would argue that Noise is most susceptible to glacier decks, since his economy and breaker options are rather limited, and his tricks (milling, Imp, etc.) are least effective. Our group is exploring a Noise build to counter NEH, but we suspect he'll be demolished by slower builds.

There is no reason for Corp decks not to include 2x or 3x copies of Jackson Howard right now. That is enough to deal a painful blow to Noise. There's a reason why he disappeared with Opening Moves, and while Cache is tremendously helpful the old weakness is still there. Furthermore, as others have stated, if you feel Noise is enough of an issue - just play Cerebral Static. I splashed it in my EtF build and I'm quite content with it.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Grish Noren
msg tools
Avatar
mbmb
I watched noise walk through Curtain Wall -> Swarm 5x advancements -> Hadrian's 3 turns in a row. Noise doesn't care about glacier anymore.

Between D4vid, Parasite, Knight & Corroder noise is perhaps the best off these days.

HB glacier can't put out ice fast enough sometimes. Its true I could spend all of my influence trying to counter one deck. And I'd be successful, but I wouldn't be having any fun. And that's a problem for me. Playing against noise is not fun on any level. Its a shame.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Peter Hodges
United States
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmb
IirionClaus wrote:
In fact, I would argue that Noise is most susceptible to glacier decks, since his economy and breaker options are rather limited, and his tricks (milling, Imp, etc.) are least effective.


As a long-time Noise player, glacier decks are the worst. The game Noise loses most often is when he can't get in anywhere and it takes too long for parasite to make a hole.

If you have problems against Noise, play an HB glacier deck.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
General Norris
Spain
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
gumOnShoe wrote:
I watched noise walk through Curtain Wall -> Swarm 5x advancements -> Hadrian's 3 turns in a row. Noise doesn't care about glacier anymore.

gumOnShoe wrote:
I just got done with a game where as the corp I had 40 credits and couldn't open a window because Noise also had 40 credits with AI on the board.

I'm not sure how you are playing, but if this happens you are doing it wrong wow
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Zak Jarvis
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm a bit confused. If a runner only runs two times in the whole game, how can you not score agendas? Was your deck entirely ICE, operations and three-point agendas? If you don't ever install unknown things in remotes, the runner never needs to spend their resources keeping you honest, surely? If you do install unknown things in remotes and the runner doesn't run them, surely you score your agendas soon enough?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Grish Noren
msg tools
Avatar
mbmb
popeye09 wrote:
I'm a bit confused. If a runner only runs two times in the whole game, how can you not score agendas? Was your deck entirely ICE, operations and three-point agendas? If you don't ever install unknown things in remotes, the runner never needs to spend their resources keeping you honest, surely? If you do install unknown things in remotes and the runner doesn't run them, surely you score your agendas soon enough?


Every time I attempted to score, he ran in that game getting in. It became apparent that I wasn't able to score and he decked me.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bob Gabel
United States
Ooltewah
Tennessee
flag msg tools
badge
Secretly John Masanori
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Saw the topic, checked the date. It blew my mind that this wasnt a necro post from 2012...
16 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
William Turner
New Zealand
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Grish from what I've seen most of your decks are very slow and rely on Ash to score 3 pointers. You also haven't put Jackson in your Foundry or Custom Biotics decks. A couple days ago you said you hadn't been seeing much Noise. I don't think you're bored, I think you're downright scared to sit down across from him.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daine .

Illinois
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
I can't recommend splashing Cerebral Static highly enough. It absolutely savages the boring types of Noise decks making the rounds.

But I can't say I share your hatred. I've been enjoying playing with and against Noise with knight and parasites. It's really effective against NBN in particular and it's fun to play.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Grish Noren
msg tools
Avatar
mbmb
Fjord wrote:
Grish from what I've seen most of your decks are very slow and rely on Ash to score 3 pointers. You also haven't put Jackson in your Foundry or Custom Biotics decks. A couple days ago you said you hadn't been seeing much Noise. I don't think you're bored, I think you're downright scared to sit down across from him.


A lot of my decks do tend to be on the slow side that I post here because I find them to be the most fun and enjoyable to play. My style often is about goading the runner into running a trap or going broke and then scoring in safety; but I have faster decks too and I had added jackson into the decks when Noise became more prevalent.

I probably had a particularly bad day of tilt today which contributed to my mood and making this topic. I also probably need to leave the decks I find fun behind and run some of my faster rush builds that I've played in the past; I just got used to playing the old netrunner where you could score in remotes & I was enjoying it.

Those days are over, I'll get over it. And I'm not scared. I used to get nervous playing this game and it was enjoyable. Now its all numbers in my head. I can see the windows opening for scoring or closing. With noise those windows don't ever open. And he doesn't run enough to tax him. And when he doesn't run, that means flat-lining isn't even much of an option.

Noise is solitaire. And I am bored by him. I'll try and speed things up, maybe it'll help.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Greg Nordeng
United States
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think playing vs Noise is tough, and I love it. How many people have been waiting for the cardpool and working hard to make him relevant again. IMO Noise is very relevant, but certainly has weaknesses still. Going to take some adjusting on the corp side to play against him.

But I say.. Bring the Noise!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt
Australia
Newcastle
NSW
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Damocles346 wrote:
Saw the topic, checked the date. It blew my mind that this wasnt a necro post from 2012...


Glad I wasn't the only one....
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Vincent Perry
United States
La Jolla
California
flag msg tools
Woot!
badge
I have overtext!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
How did you let noise get 40 credits?!shake
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Captain Frisk
United States
Connecticut
flag msg tools
badge
MIND|GAMES
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
theodorelogan wrote:
How did you let noise get 40 credits?!shake


My guess is cache recursion and pawn shop, against a glacier deck that has no traps, and no ability to "never advance" out an agenda.

Put 2 secretaries in that deck and you are playing netrunner again!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Vincent Perry
United States
La Jolla
California
flag msg tools
Woot!
badge
I have overtext!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yeah but a Noise with 40 credits means you aren't trying to push out agendas aggressively.

I find that glacier is the best counter to Noise, and that Noise does very well against fast advance.

I think OP just had a rough day. I like having different point values for agendas (since if you think the runner can get in you can install advance advance a one pointer, then put in a 3 pointer when they are broke) but on the other hand, fewer agendas means getting them out of archives so Noise can't get them is easier.

Having a couple advanceable traps can help, but if Noise is only running twice in a game, you aren;t getting value out of your glaciers. You need to give the runner a reason to run. How about throwing in some 3/2 and running Haas Arology AI. IAA, and if the runner doesn't run, score out of hand.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
D. R.
Lithuania
flag msg tools
badge
Miss! Does no damage to Liquid Metal Slime!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Funny, I haven't yet found a problem to beat Noise deck with my two favorite decks I play: Jinteki PE and Jinteki RP. Although, I have to admit here, that people I usually face in OCTGN are horrible players. Either they are starting out (hard to believe after 100+ matches with a lot of people) or they just netdeck and don't know how to properly play.

With Jinteki RP, I try to secure 1 - 2 Sundews and 1 - 2 Mental Health Clinics and get a steady income every turn (easier, especially when they use Wyldside, leaving them to 2 actions to attack Remote servers) and just steadily push out NAPD or Nisei Mk II. Since they try to burn through my R&D, I try make with my HQ what I have.

With PE it is way more better, because a lot of the times I don't necesserily ice up HQ or R&D heavily (the deck contains about 7 ICE) so I just invite Noise to check remotes or run into a Fetal AI. I usually flatline Noise mid-game.

Now, seen as Chronos Protocol got a text spoiler in the next upcoming Data Pack, it's going to become even easier with PE against Noise.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sonny A.
Denmark
Copenhagen
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Kill his Aesops and he'll be dead in the water.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Simon C
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
While everyone makes a lot of good points about ways to counter Noise, I'm going to stick my neck out here and say I agree with the thread, or the title at least- I find playing against Noise boring. Or maybe more aggravating. In my view, the most annoying thing about ANR as a whole is the randomness in the deck, and the fact a bad draw or bad selection of accesses can win or lose you a game. Noise doubles that randomness by eliminating significant number of cards from your deck without you having chance to control them at all, and if he happens to snipe your agenda and Noise-counters, then that's basically another coin-flip loss.

I'm not saying he's broken, or overpowered- I just enjoy games against him less on average than most other identities.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
sir slayer
msg tools
When my small group started playing (2-3 months back) we only used the core set.
In that noise felt alright, then we started stocking up, with jackson he pretty much was left in the dust.
Now he got more (useful) viruses and returns.

Imho if he's playing alone, your game might need some touches e.g. some Advancable assets.

Tag him and he's dead fish. A friend of mine built a NBN tag deck... that just crushes me.

Edit: also more counters are being out there soon.
The NBN/Jin current are also very good.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Allan Clements
Norway
Oslo
flag msg tools
badge
Turns out Esseb did touch the flag. Don't tell him I said so though.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
d4v1d makes noise super good against glacier if you ask me, he can use it to snipe agendas from a remote, and since he probably has clone chips he can get tham back easily enough.

I find noise to still be a bit random. Some games he will mill all 3 of my jacksons, and agenda after agenda, and some games he gets some ice trashed and I win trivially.

I added cyberdex trial to my deck on OCTGN simply because 90% of everyone is playing noise. Maybe I should try to put cerebral static in.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.