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Xia: Legends of a Drift System» Forums » General

Subject: 4X? REALLY? rss

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Anthony Simons
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This game has been added to the 4X games family. Can somebody explain to me (without stretching the definition) how it is a 4X game, please, because I am not seeing it?
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Timmy Bendall
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Let's assume we use toerck's summary (as the 4x page does)

EXPLORE
There are exploration tokens on tiles which rewards you for going to unexplored places. TICK.

EXPLOIT
Xia includes Harvesting, Mining and Salvaging, albeit from 'bottomless' supplies, which you can then sell for credits from certain planets. TICK.

EXTERMINATE
You can attack other players or NPCs on any turn that you're in firing range. Also, some of the missions 'require' you to destroy another player to complete the mission. TICK.

EXPAND
You start with a maximum of 5 space tiles on the table and when you reach an edge you place a new tile there, thus expanding the board. As much as you can get new benefits from these tiles, you aren't expanding your influence per se. QUESTION MARK.


OK, so you're not commanding a fleet, just a single ship, but I think Xia is close enough to a 4X game that it's OK for it to end up in the 4X category. Certainly, the people who like 4X games should be made aware that Xia exists because a lot of them would like it. So for that reason it is also good to have it there, considering it basically meets the definition anyway.
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Patrick Dettmar
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Yea, I don't see the problem with putting this in the 4G category. The only other likely thing it would be is pick up and deliver, but that doesn't fit it perfectly either. I say it could go either way.
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Aaron R
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TimmyB wrote:

EXPAND
You start with a maximum of 5 space tiles on the table and when you reach an edge you place a new tile there, thus expanding the board. As much as you can get new benefits from these tiles, you aren't expanding your influence per se. QUESTION MARK.


This is essentially recasting Exploration as Expansion. I think it's pretty clear the Xia hits 3 of the 4 "Xs", but 4X to me implies that you're expanding your influence / empire. I agree that Xia might appeal to a decent subset of people who enjoy 4X games, but I don't think it can actually be classified as one.
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Karl
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Expand would more come into play via buying new ships and expanding them with new outfits and earning titles.

Still dunno if I would term Xia 4x. I tend to say no even if it would fulfill the 4x requirements.
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Anthony Simons
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fireandlight27 wrote:
TimmyB wrote:

EXPAND
You start with a maximum of 5 space tiles on the table and when you reach an edge you place a new tile there, thus expanding the board. As much as you can get new benefits from these tiles, you aren't expanding your influence per se. QUESTION MARK.


This is essentially recasting Exploration as Expansion. I think it's pretty clear the Xia hits 3 of the 4 "Xs", but 4X to me implies that you're expanding your influence / empire. I agree that Xia might appeal to a decent subset of people who enjoy 4X games, but I don't think it can actually be classified as one.


I think Timmy's explanation of "Exploit" as interpreted for this game is also extremely tenuous; gathering resources to sell on a market is hardly exploiting them. The other explanations are only slightly tenuous; battling NPCs and other players is barely extermination and explore usually correlates to undiscovered territory - not a bonus token.
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Timmy Bendall
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Well like I explained, there's plenty of unexplored territory to explore in Xia, and I like the point that you expand your ships capabilities.

I'm happy to concede that it could go either way, and thankfully I'm not the one who has to decide if it gets to be on the 4x page.

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Ira Fay
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I've played 10 point games, and I felt the following game flow:

Accumulate wealth by harvesting/mining/trading/completing missions, use that wealth to generate more wealth faster, use that wealth to invest in significant upgrades (new ships with new powers, better outfits), then use the new power to either make more money faster or go fighting. Then the game ends.

I haven't played a 15 or 20 point game, but I suspect that conflict is likely much more of a factor in those games. It might be possible to be purely defensive, but you'll need to keep it in mind either way.

I didn't study the definition very precisely, but the feeling for me is very much like 4X games, with many options to victory but the same underlying need to generate money and power up.
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matt way
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But is it really a wargame?

;)
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Anthony Simons
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TimmyB wrote:
I'm happy to concede that it could go either way, and thankfully I'm not the one who has to decide if it gets to be on the 4x page.


Well you're right; you don't get to decide, but you can submit a correction. I have therefore requested this game be removed from the family, with the following reason:

"The game fails to fit the description for a 4X game on at least one point."
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Anthony Simons
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ira212 wrote:
I didn't study the definition very precisely, but the feeling for me is very much like 4X games, with many options to victory but the same underlying need to generate money and power up.

So in actual fact, it is not a 4X but an economic engine.
 
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Josh
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This means Race for the Galaxy is also 4X shake
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Erik Stanfill
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I would agree that calling Xia a 4X game is stretching the traditional definition. It has some characteristics of 4X, The exploring, the advancement of your primary ship, getting tech, and can give you a bit of an epic feel, but my brain didn't invoke TI:3 or Runewars while I was playing Xia. Interesting discussion, though.
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Graham Charlton
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No longer 4X. And I got 0.5 geek gold in the process.
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Riley Crowder
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When I was describing it to people as a 3X Being that you explore, expand, and exterminate, but don't exploit.

But yeah its not really a 4 x game..and clearly the rest of the internet agrees now.
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Anthony Simons
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RandomGraham wrote:
No longer 4X. And I got 0.5 geek gold in the process.

Me too.
 
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Nick Hawkins
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I think you're a load of killjoys

To my mind Xia is 4X-ish, maybe micro-4X, even if it doesn't have the epic scale of most 'true' 4X games. Some of the board game categories are very broad (EG 'tile laying'), would it really have hurt to make the 4X category a bit more inclusive?
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Anthony Simons
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NickH wrote:
...would it really have hurt to make the 4X category a bit more inclusive?

Only insofar as it would become meaningless as a category. They are deemed 4X games by a number of criteria (four of them); this game meets two of those at best.

BTW, the "killjoys" are those who insist on trying to cram something into a category in which it does not belong; I suppose some folk gain some sort of perverse pleasure out of it, but I just don't understand why somebody - anybody - wishes a game to be something it isn't.
 
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Graham Charlton
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fellonmyhead wrote:
NickH wrote:
...would it really have hurt to make the 4X category a bit more inclusive?

Only insofar as it would become meaningless as a category. They are deemed 4X games by a number of criteria (four of them); this game meets two of those at best.

BTW, the "killjoys" are those who insist on trying to cram something into a category in which it does not belong; I suppose some folk gain some sort of perverse pleasure out of it, but I just don't understand why somebody - anybody - wishes a game to be something it isn't.


I've always thought there's an extra layer to the definition too. In a 4X game you are a nation or a civilization doing the various X's. Just a dude (or a ship) wandering around a map doesn't really cut it for that sort of game.
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Troels Rohde Hansen
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I actually think that the 4X is one of the more defined catagories.

I don't see what you want to obtain be putting Xia in the 4X catagory. What does Xia gain from that? I can't see anything.

But if the games doesn't fit(that is not the concern of this post), then it could derive from the Catagory. So Xia has nothing to gain, and 4X some to lose.

And then again, nowhere is it implied that 4X has to be nation or civ, it just have to have the 4 X's - but that is a lot easier to make with nations and civs.

Karl wrote:
Still dunno if I would term Xia 4x. I tend to say no even if it would fulfill the 4x requirements.


But if i DID fullfill 4X requirement, then it would be 4X?
If it had all four X's, how could it not be a 4X game?




...Troels
 
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Simon
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if it were a computer game Xia would not qualify as 4x. elite is not a 4x neither are any other space sims. In computer game land 4x games are empire building / conquest strategy games, not personal adventure games. However this is BGG were all definitions are spurious.
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Hardboiled Gregg
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This game is clearly 4X.

Xplore, Xploit, Xterminate, Xia.
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Troels Rohde Hansen
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Well played, sir...
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Kevin Reitz
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There's a whole lot of pedantry taking place in this thread... oh wait, right... gamers.
 
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Anthony Simons
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k3b1n wrote:
There's a whole lot of pedantry taking place in this thread... oh wait, right... gamers.

I think you'll find there is very little. Yes, I'm counting that bit too.
 
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