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Subject: Infinite Espionage Loops rss

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Anthony Rubbo
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We need some limitation clarifications on Espionage:

'For each "espionage" effect, the active player may immediately generate the same effect of an Advanced Technology controlled by an opponent.'

I have Spying [Espionage]. You have Undercover Agents [Espionage] + [2x Development].

I use Spying to gain the use of Espionage.
I use Espionage to copy your Undercover Agents.
I gain 2 Development, and gain the use of Espionage.
I use Espionage to copy your Undercover Agents.
I gain 2 Development, and gain the use of Espionage.
I use Espionage to copy your Undercover Agents....

Infinite Development for Infinite Cubes for Infinite Points!

Also - the limitation shouldn't be "cannot copy itself", because if a third player has "Infiltrations" which also has an Espionage effect, you can just bounce back and forth between the two.

Thanks!

(btw - there was also discussion on the interaction between Espionage and Continuous effects here - though I believe we are still waiting for Maurizio to respond with an official answer: http://boardgamegeek.com/article/16629832#16629832 ).

tanis wrote:
Espionage: yes it can be performed upon a continuous effect, it will last until the end of your turn. As of effects generated at the beginning of turn, it shuld fizzle (but here wait for Maurizio's official confirmation).
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Tajs Seelen
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Haven't played the game, but it sounds you just shouldn't be able to Espionage an Espionage.
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Gar Per
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Completely unsolicited take on this - Most activations occur when you finish placing cubes on an advanced tech. It can only be activated again after a reset or a cube removal effect. Espionage activates another person's technology for all intents and purposes just as if they had activated it themselves. It is as if you had placed cubes on it and it is now full, so you can't go back to it until your "espionage ghost cubes" are removed.

But that is just my random house rulish justification to prevent an infinite loop. There clearly needs to be some errata here.

Edit: Just a note on a technicality...you can't achieve infinite cubes for infinite points. Once the supply is exhausted, it is exhausted.
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Anthony Rubbo
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In your house rulish case, it seems it would follow that if you had two separate Espionage abilities, the same enemy advancement could not be targeted with both.

Yeah, I knew that technicality about the supply exhaustion. I was just using hyperborle for effect.

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Gar Per
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LemonyFresh wrote:
In your house rulish case, it seems it would follow that if you had two separate Espionage abilities, the same enemy advancement could not be targeted with both.


I suppose so. It seems to fit in with the general feel of abilities being activated, with limited exception, once.

LemonyFresh wrote:

Yeah, I knew that technicality about the supply exhaustion. I was just using hyperborle for effect.



I'm having a hard time sussing out why you italicized hyperbole. Is it because:

1) I'm a "dummy" who didn't get it and you are trying to emulate the manner in which people slow down the pronunciation of words when talking down to others? If that is the case, then it is hyperbole, and yeah, I got it.
2) Some other reason? If that is the case, then I mentioned it only for the sake of thoroughness, not really to call your post erroneous. Most of the times I've seen people catch a rules mistake have been when someone points out a bit of indirectly related information in an attempt to be completely thorough.

Choose which answer applies depending on your meaning.
 
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Anthony Rubbo
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It was a pun on Hyperborea! Hyperborle.

No offense was taken - you are correct to point it out.
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Adam Kazimierczak
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Puns are wasted on the internet.

Strange that this was not found on playtesting as copying cards that copy is a common issue in card games. (Hint: use ex-CCG players as your playtesters.)
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Gar Per
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LemonyFresh wrote:
It was a pun on Hyperborea! Hyperborle.

No offense was taken - you are correct to point it out.


I'll admit, that did go right over my head.
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Gar Per
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kaziam wrote:
Puns are wasted on the internet.

Strange that this was not found on playtesting as copying cards that copy is a common issue in card games. (Hint: use ex-CCG players as your playtesters.)


I would not be surprised to find that there is supposed to be a rule and it was lost by the publisher/writer/editor. That, or lack of clarity on such things, seems to come as often from there as it does from the design.
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Dana Dawson
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Maurizio and other playtesters were MtG players so I'm quite sure they avoided loop with copy effects.
Let's see what he'll say
 
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Maurizio Vergendo
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EDIT: Please ignore this message. The official ruling on the topic is in this thread.

Hi all and thanks for this question.
Espionage effect do not stack togheter.
So if a player uses an espionage effect on advanced technology that has another espionage effect on it he will "copy" all the effects except for the espionage.
For example:
If a player uses "spying" to copy "infiltrations" he will generate only the cube drawing effect.
This will be add to official FAQs