Idan Rooze
Israel
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In our last game I came up with an idea on how to prove yourself innocent while adding to the crisis contribution pile. It is only possible in some cases but I think this is an effective way to put some pressure on a potential betrayer and possibly deny him from sabotaging the prevention of the crisis. When the current crisis involves using tools, players may contribute tools that are equipped to their survivors (if I'm not mistaken this is the only situation in which adding equipped cards is possible). So, if you do want to use some equip tools from your hand, as an innocent, you should ALWAYS first equip the cards to a survivor you control, and only then add them face up to the crisis deck.

The part in the rules that discusses adding quipped cards to the crisis:
Quote:
A player may add 1 or more cards from his hand and/or cards that are equipped to survivors he controls to the currently revealed crisis card. Cards added to a crisis from a player’s hand are added face down so that no other player can see them.


I thought that it wasn't too obvious and just wanted to share my thoughts. Of course it isn't always possible and of course secret objectives should be considered, but as long as it is an option, in this edge case, you should always reveal the equip/tool cards you're contributing.

Any thoughts?

Edit: clarified the subject and emphasized relevant part of the rules.
 
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Cameron McKenzie
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How did you come to the conclusion that equipped items can be contributed? Did I miss this somewhere?
 
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Idan Rooze
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It appears in my post. I shall now attempt to bold and underline the statement:

Quote:
A player may add 1 or more cards from his hand and/or cards that are equipped to survivors he controls to the currently revealed crisis card. Cards added to a crisis from a player’s hand are added face down so that no other player can see them.
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Lewis Wagner
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Woolin wrote:
In our last game I came up with an idea on how to prove yourself innocent while adding to the crisis contribution pile. It is only possible in some cases but I think this is an effective way to put some pressure on a potential betrayer and possibly deny him from sabotaging the prevention of the crisis. When the current crisis involves using tools, players may contribute tools that are equipped to their survivors (if I'm not mistaken this is the only situation in which adding equipped cards is possible). So, if you do want to use some equip tools from your hand, as an innocent, you should ALWAYS first equip the cards to a survivor you control, and only then add them face up to the crisis deck.

The part in the rules that discusses adding quipped cards to the crisis:
Quote:
A player may add 1 or more cards from his hand and/or cards that are equipped to survivors he controls to the currently revealed crisis card. Cards added to a crisis from a player’s hand are added face down so that no other player can see them.


I thought that it wasn't too obvious and just wanted to share my thoughts. Of course it isn't always possible and of course secret objectives should be considered, but as long as it is an option, in this edge case, you should always reveal the equip/tool cards you're contributing.

Any thoughts?

Edit: clarified the subject and emphasized relevant part of the rules.


I would think you'd need to unequip, putting it in your hand, then move from your hand to the crisis contribution pile. Still, if other players no you unequipped a particular item, and that item shows up in the pile, they'll know you contributed that particular card.

Equipment is usually useful enough that this will be a painful decision.
 
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Idan Rooze
Israel
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The problem is that equipped cards never get back to your hand.

The part in the rules that discusses equipping cards:
Quote:
Once a card is equipped it cannot be unequipped unless it is being added to a crisis or is being handed off.


From the first ruled that I mentioned that deals with adding cards to a crisis there is clearly a distinction between adding a card from the hand and from a survivor.

Quote:
A player may add 1 or more cards from his hand and/or cards that are equipped to survivors he controls to the currently revealed crisis card. Cards added to a crisis from a player’s hand are added face down so that no other player can see them.


It is stressed that "Cards added to a crisis from a player’s hand are added face down so that no other player can see them". I therefore conclude that cards that are added the other way, equipped cards, should be added face up. I think I got it right.

It wasn't meant to be a rules-related post, I hoped it could light up this single issue from a strategy perspective. I guess we'll have to wait for an official answer then?
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Lee Fisher
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Although a lot of the tools would be junk, which you can't equip?
 
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Kwijiboe
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Woolin wrote:
The problem is that equipped cards never get back to your hand.

The part in the rules that discusses equipping cards:
Quote:
Once a card is equipped it cannot be unequipped unless it is being added to a crisis or is being handed off.


From the first ruled that I mentioned that deals with adding cards to a crisis there is clearly a distinction between adding a card from the hand and from a survivor.

Quote:
A player may add 1 or more cards from his hand and/or cards that are equipped to survivors he controls to the currently revealed crisis card. Cards added to a crisis from a player’s hand are added face down so that no other player can see them.


It is stressed that "Cards added to a crisis from a player’s hand are added face down so that no other player can see them". I therefore conclude that cards that are added the other way, equipped cards, should be added face up. I think I got it right.

It wasn't meant to be a rules-related post, I hoped it could light up this single issue from a strategy perspective. I guess we'll have to wait for an official answer then?


There's really no need for an official answer. You've got it right.

However, it is kind of a cheesy move to equip > contribute to essentially show what your crisis contribution is. It's already far too easy to deduce where items come from based on their location.
 
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Kwijiboe
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lfisher wrote:
Although a lot of the tools would be junk, which you can't equip?


There are 10 junk tools and 13 Waste Pile/Equipment tools.
 
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Cameron McKenzie
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Yeah, I missed that one blush
But I also agree, most contributions will be junk - you start with enough junk to pass two tool crises, so you should rarely resort to using better equips.
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Idan Rooze
Israel
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I agree with everything said. However, in our game there was a situation where junk was already used for reroll or added to previous crises and some sacrifices had to be made. I mentioned it is indeed an edge case. I want to suggest this move to a suspicious group, or to one where there appears to be a betrayer.

That being said, I believe in this game at least some resources should be spent to deny a potential betrayer. It might prove even more important than careful resource management, and you need to develop tools (no pun intended) in order to be able to do so. I believe the more our group plays the more our meta would lean towards that kind of playstyle. I understand some groups do not yet know how to deal with the more overwhelming betrayer moves (worst case scenario: the double turn).

Also, some people have actually got the rule wrong, I guess it was worth bringing that up anyway!

Thanks for the responses.
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Ryan M
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Yeah, the only way to unequip a weapon (aside from death) is to either hand it off to another survivor - who must immediately equip it - or to add it to the crises. If you are doing that, people will already know what you are adding as they have seen the card and should have seen you taking it off the character and putting it in the crisis pile. No need to put it face up or anything like that.

We had that happen in a game recently where we would have failed a crisis if someone didn't unequip a useful item and add it to the crisis. It is a very tough decision to make because equipped items offer such a huge benefit it is a shame to throw them away. But sometimes the failed crisis could be worse.

As it turned out we had a betrayor that game who was hoarding some cards we could have used to avoid failing crises and lying about having them.
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