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Android: Netrunner» Forums » General

Subject: Elizabeth Mills has a Netrunner Puzzle for you rss

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Sam B
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Hello runners, I'm sure you all know me. Elizabeth Mills, Director of Urban Redevelopment at Weyland Corp. You're here because we're facing a particularly pugnacious runner who will stop at nothing to get their hands on our Government Contracts. Rather than outsourcing the problem to our supercomputer, we at Weyland have decided to canvass opinion from the people who know runners best: runners!

Hm? Yes, we know you aren't here by choice, and please leave all questions until the end. Thank you.

The doors will remain locked for 24 hours, at which point we will hand the task over to our network of supercomputers to analyse the situation. We will reveal the answer to you, and then this building will be, ahem, redeveloped.

In the meantime, put your heads together and get cracking! First one to discover an answer has their cyber-criminal records expunged, and we'll even throw in a new condo in Peru... No, we haven't laced the foundations with plastic explosive, what an absurd notion.

The puzzle is on your desk in front of you. My teleprompter tells me to wish you all good luck, but I honestly have no idea why we didn't just hand this over to our supercomputer in the first place. Here's hoping you all fail miserably!


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


The following outlines the state of play as the runner spends their last click of a turn.


Corp Setup

Identity: Weyland (Building a Better World)

Credit pool: 13 credits

Cards in HQ: 3 - Enigma, Grim, Beanstalk Royalties

Cards in R&D: 25

Face-up Cards in Archives: 10 (see picture)

Face-down Cards in Archives: 0

Bad Publicity Count: 1

Agenda score: 4 - Project Atlas (with 2 unused Agenda counters), False Lead and Hostile Takeoever.

Ice Spread

HQ is protected by a Caduceus (innermost) and a Shadow.

R&D is protected by an Ice Wall.

Archives is protected by an Enigma.

The remote server is protected by two unknown pieces of Ice (each of which is hosting a Knight).

Remote Server

In the remote server is Government Contracts with two advancement counters. There are no upgrades.





Runner Setup

Identity: Noise

Credit pool: 3 credits

Cards in Grip: 4 - Hemmorhage, Grimoire, Nerve Agent, Cyberfeeder

Cards in Stack: 25

Cards in Heap: 6 (see picture)

Tag Count: 0

Brain Damage Count: 0

Agenda score: 4 - Project Atlas and Geothermal Fracking.


Programs in Play

Mimic
Datasucker (with 2 virus counters)
Knight (hosted on innermost piece of remote server ice)
Knight (hosted on outermost piece of remote server ice)

Resources in Play

Wyldside
Joshua B.

Hardware in Play

Grimoire
Plascrete Carapace (with four unused power counters)





The Runner's Turn

Prior to the state of play outlined above, the runner took a turn. They began the turn with 4 credits and 4 cards. One of their Knights began the turn hosted on the Ice Wall protecting R&D. The Datasucker had one counter.

They took the following actions during the turn:

-Drew two cards - Stimhack and Infiltration - from Wyldside (3 clicks and 4 credits remaining)
-Used Joshua B (4 clicks and 4 credits remaining)
-Played Infiltration, targetting the advanced card in the remote server. The Corp reveals it to be a Government Contracts (3 clicks and 4 credits remaining)
-Initiated a run on R&D, spending one credit and one bad publicity credit to break the End the Run subroutine with Knight. The runner accesses the top card of R&D and sees a Caduceus, and gains a virus counter on Datasucker (2 clicks and 3 credits remaining)
-Moved Knight from Ice Wall to the outermost piece of Ice protecting the remote server (1 click and 3 credits remaining)
-Plays Stimhack (0 clicks and 3 credits remaining)

The runner has 13 credits to spend during this run (9 from Stimhack, 1 Bad Publicity and 3 real credits.)


The Puzzle

What two pieces of Ice must the corp have placed to protect their remote server to ensure that they can win the game by the end of their next turn?

You can make the following assumptions:

-The Corp's deck contains any cards you wish, providing they do not violate influence or card count limits.
-The Corp's ice can be any ice you wish, providing they do not violate influence or card count limits.
-The Runner will "run sensibly", meaning that they will break all End the Run subroutines, any subroutines which would cause a flatline and any subroutines which add additional pieces of ice to the server.*
-In addition, on the outermost piece of ice the runner will break any subroutines which prevent interaction with the second piece of ice, including preventing the spending of credits or allowing the corp to trash programs to trash.*
-The runner will not choose to jack out.
-Only cards currently released for standard tournament play (i.e. up to The Spaces Between) can be used.

*- Another way of looking at it - the solution does not depend on some failure of the runner "AI" to play smart. If you would break the subroutine in this situation, assume the runner will too!

The solution will be posted tomorrow, unless someone discovers it in the meantime!
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Spoiler (click to reveal)
The first piece of ice is an Archer, followed by a Hive.

As the Runner approaches Archer, the Corp uses both counters on Project Atlas to pull two copies of Scorched Earth into HQ. In order to rez Archer, the Corp sacrifices Project Atlas, reducing his Agenda Point total to 2. The Runner breaks the last 3 subroutines, giving the Corp 2 credits.

Board State after Archer:
Runner: 13-6=7 credits, 4 cards in hand
Corp: 13-4+2=11 credits, 2 Agenda points

As the Runner approaches Hive, the Corp uses False Lead to sacrifice it for no effect, reducing his Agenda Point total to 1. Curtain Wall now has 4 subroutines, more than the Runner can break (it would require 8 credits). The run ends. As the run ends, the Runner takes 1 Brain Damage, trashing a card from his hand.

Board State after Run:
Runner: 7 credits, 3 cards in hand.
Corp: 11-5=6 credits, 1 Agenda point.

The Corp plays both Scorched Earths - the first wipes out all counters on Plascrete Carapace and the second deals 4 damage to the Runner, flatlining the Runner.

NOTE: If the Runner broke the first subroutine on Archer, denying the Corp 2 credits, the Corp can play Beanstalk Royalties on his first click to gain the necessary credits.

EDIT: I meant Hive, not Curtain Wall.
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Bradley Galbraith
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Ripshawd wrote:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The first piece of ice is an Archer, followed by a Curtain Wall.

As the Runner approaches Archer, the Corp uses both counters on Project Atlas to pull two copies of Scorched Earth into HQ. In order to rez Archer, the Corp sacrifices Project Atlas, reducing his Agenda Point total to 2. The Runner breaks the last 3 subroutines, giving the Corp 2 credits.

Board State after Archer:
Runner: 13-6=7 credits, 4 cards in hand
Corp: 13-4+2=11 credits, 2 Agenda points

As the Runner approaches Curtain Wall, the Corp uses False Lead to sacrifice it for no effect, reducing his Agenda Point total to 1. Curtain Wall now has 4 subroutines, more than the Runner can break (it would require 8 credits). The run ends. As the run ends, the Runner takes 1 Brain Damage, trashing a card from his hand.

Board State after Run:
Runner: 7 credits, 3 cards in hand.
Corp: 11-5=6 credits, 1 Agenda point.

The Corp plays both Scorched Earths - the first wipes out all counters on Plascrete Carapace and the second deals 4 damage to the Runner, flatlining the Runner.


Spoiler (click to reveal)
Do you mean Hive rather than curtain wall?
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Quote:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Do you mean Hive rather than curtain wall?

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Yes - caught that just as you posted!
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Captain Frisk
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Spoiler (click to reveal)

Ice #1 is popup window. You gain 1 dollar.
Ice #2 is wotan. This is just out of reach of Knight + Datasucker (assuming that the picture is accurate and you only have 2 tokens)

This ends the run with 0 credits remaining. Runner takes brain damage (irrelevant)

On corp turn:

Atlas counter #1 fetches your 3rd subliminal messaging (it looks like only 2 are in archives)

Atlas counter #2 fetches shipment from sansan

Click 1 - play subliminal, gaining a credit and a click.
Click 2+3 - shipment from sansan
Click 4 (from the sublim) - advance and win?



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Sam B
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Ripshawd wrote:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The first piece of ice is an Archer, followed by a Hive.

As the Runner approaches Archer, the Corp uses both counters on Project Atlas to pull two copies of Scorched Earth into HQ. In order to rez Archer, the Corp sacrifices Project Atlas, reducing his Agenda Point total to 2. The Runner breaks the last 3 subroutines, giving the Corp 2 credits.

Board State after Archer:
Runner: 13-6=7 credits, 4 cards in hand
Corp: 13-4+2=11 credits, 2 Agenda points

As the Runner approaches Hive, the Corp uses False Lead to sacrifice it for no effect, reducing his Agenda Point total to 1. Curtain Wall now has 4 subroutines, more than the Runner can break (it would require 8 credits). The run ends. As the run ends, the Runner takes 1 Brain Damage, trashing a card from his hand.

Board State after Run:
Runner: 7 credits, 3 cards in hand.
Corp: 11-5=6 credits, 1 Agenda point.

The Corp plays both Scorched Earths - the first wipes out all counters on Plascrete Carapace and the second deals 4 damage to the Runner, flatlining the Runner.

NOTE: If the Runner broke the first subroutine on Archer, denying the Corp 2 credits, the Corp can play Beanstalk Royalties on his first click to gain the necessary credits.

EDIT: I meant Hive, not Curtain Wall.




What - they solved it already? What am I paying you sysops for anyway? Fine, fine. Get them out of here. Make sure they each get chipped on the way out, too.

And while you're at it, get me in touch with whoever is putting out those ridiculously-named Grail ice!

* * * * * *

Good job Ripshawd

I'm pretty sure that's the only possible solution, unless anyone else has any thoughts?
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Laurent LECOMTE
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Ripshawd wrote:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The first piece of ice is an Archer, followed by a Hive.

As the Runner approaches Archer, the Corp uses both counters on Project Atlas to pull two copies of Scorched Earth into HQ. In order to rez Archer, the Corp sacrifices Project Atlas, reducing his Agenda Point total to 2. The Runner breaks the last 3 subroutines, giving the Corp 2 credits.

Board State after Archer:
Runner: 13-6=7 credits, 4 cards in hand
Corp: 13-4+2=11 credits, 2 Agenda points

As the Runner approaches Hive, the Corp uses False Lead to sacrifice it for no effect, reducing his Agenda Point total to 1. Curtain Wall now has 4 subroutines, more than the Runner can break (it would require 8 credits). The run ends. As the run ends, the Runner takes 1 Brain Damage, trashing a card from his hand.

Board State after Run:
Runner: 7 credits, 3 cards in hand.
Corp: 11-5=6 credits, 1 Agenda point.

The Corp plays both Scorched Earths - the first wipes out all counters on Plascrete Carapace and the second deals 4 damage to the Runner, flatlining the Runner.

NOTE: If the Runner broke the first subroutine on Archer, denying the Corp 2 credits, the Corp can play Beanstalk Royalties on his first click to gain the necessary credits.

EDIT: I meant Hive, not Curtain Wall.



Spoiler (click to reveal)
and it a weyland way. I still to kind, only think of what i need to rez with 10 credit, to score an agenda. But screw the agenda, I am welyand i don't score, i scorch. Well played

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Sam B
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Captain_Frisk wrote:
Spoiler (click to reveal)

Ice #1 is popup window. You gain 1 dollar.
Ice #2 is wotan. This is just out of reach of Knight + Datasucker (assuming that the picture is accurate and you only have 2 tokens)

This ends the run with 0 credits remaining. Runner takes brain damage (irrelevant)

On corp turn:

Atlas counter #1 fetches your 3rd subliminal messaging (it looks like only 2 are in archives)

Atlas counter #2 fetches shipment from sansan

Click 1 - play subliminal, gaining a credit and a click.
Click 2+3 - shipment from sansan
Click 4 (from the sublim) - advance and win?





Amazing, I think this works too. Nice find.
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Quote:


What - they solved it already? What am I paying you sysops for anyway? Fine, fine. Get them out of here. Make sure they each get chipped on the way out, too.

And while you're at it, get me in touch with whoever is putting out those ridiculously-named Grail ice!

* * * * * *

Good job Ripshawd

I'm pretty sure that's the only possible solution, unless anyone else has any thoughts?

An excellent puzzle - very enjoyable solution! The solution was not readily noticed - you hid the actual goal very well. Kudos!
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Ony Moose
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Am I missing something, or can you just do:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Ice 1: Swordsman, trash the second knight.
Ice 2: Ice wall, ends the run.
Then advance 3 times and score the agenda.


(EDIT Also, Datasucker has 3 tokens on it now right, after the run on R&D earlier in the turn? Which means Knight can break up to Strength 10 ice. Looks like the screenshot is after the run, so it's only 2 tokens.)
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Bradley Galbraith
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Kandiru wrote:
Am I missing something, or can you just do:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Ice 1: Swordsman, trash the second knight.
Ice 2: Ice wall, ends the run.
Then advance 3 times and score the agenda.


(Also, Datasucker has 3 tokens on it now right, after the run on R&D earlier in the turn? Which means Knight can break up to Strength 10 ice.)

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Noise has Mimic installed.
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Ony Moose
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PaxCecilia wrote:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Noise has Mimic installed.

Right you are! Should look at both screenshots really
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TestTones wrote:
Captain_Frisk wrote:
Spoiler (click to reveal)

solution


Amazing, I think this works too. Nice find.


Yeah, but the other one is more believable.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The data sucker counters killed matrix analyzer + Hadrian's as the other possible way to stop the double knight
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Captain Frisk
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Kandiru wrote:
Am I missing something, or can you just do:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Ice 1: Swordsman, trash the second knight.
Ice 2: Ice wall, ends the run.
Then advance 3 times and score the agenda.


(Also, Datasucker has 3 tokens on it now right, after the run on R&D earlier in the turn? Which means Knight can break up to Strength 10 ice.)


I considered that - but the screenshot clearly shows 2 tokens, and the infiltration + stimhack credits, so I took that to mean that the datasucker only had 2 tokens on it at the final state and the runner board state text description accidentally listed starting condition incorrectly. A 3rd datasucker token kills both solutions.
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wrathofmine
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Spoiler (click to reveal)
1st ICE : popup window

runner - use bad pub
corp - 14 creds left

2nd ICe : wotan
runner cannot break or pay the click toll
corp - 0 creds left

corp turn :
use atlas counter for subliminal messaging
use atlas counter for shipment from sansan

1rst click : use subliminal messaging - 3 clicks left - 1 cred
2nd click : advance once - 2 clicks left 0 creds
3rd/4th clicks : shipment from sansan

Score that Governement Contract !

influence used : 7


oh so many answers meanwhile but was fun to solve !
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My solution is also similar to the one of Captain Frisk. Just for the fun of it, I made a different way to win

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Pop-up + Wotan to stop the runner.

Then you just need to advance 3 times, right?

Win by Flatline:
Atlas counter fetch Accelerated Diagnostics and Subliminal
Click 0: Subliminal
Click 1: Beanstalk (end with 4 credits)
Click 2: Accelerated diagnostics (-1 cred). Reveal Beanstalk (end with 6 credits), which is enough to play 2 Scorched Earths.
Click 3: Profit

Win by Agenda Points:
Click 0 & 1 are the same
Click 2: Accelerated diagnostics (-1 cred). Reveal Shipment from Mirrormorph (install hostile takeover), and to Shipment from SanSan. Add 2 advancements to each agenda
Click 3: 5th advancement on Gov Contracts and score both agendas. End up winning with 8 AP and a grin
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Ben Finkel
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Well, I count one from a spoiled card, too, for curiosity's sake (also because it showed up on the list on Sneakdoor.com and I forgot it wasn't released):

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Server is Eli 1.0 and Ashigaru (Up and Over 64).


Runner breaks Eli 1.0 with Knight (9 credits left).
Rez Ashigaru, use both Atlas counters to get Shipment from SanSan and anything else, Ashigaru now has 5 ETR subroutines. Can't break 5 ETR subroutines with Knight.

You're down to 1 credit. Next turn advance and Shipment from SanSan, scoring the Contracts.

You can also use Galahad instead of Eli, but you need to fetch a second Galahad or a Lancelot in order to get the second subroutine. In return, though, you can grab a Subliminal Messaging instead of a Shipment from SanSan with your Atlas counter.


Spoiler (click to reveal)
As for the solution that calls for you to sacrifice your False Lead to no effect, I'm not sure if that's legal. The FAQ states "A player cannot trigger an action/ability unless he is also able to resolve it." This has previously been taken to mean that you can't execute an ability if it doesn't affect the game state outside of the cost - i.e. you can't play Diesel with an empty stack. False Lead's "if able" wording makes it a little confusing though.
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TestTones wrote:
Ripshawd wrote:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The first piece of ice is an Archer, followed by a Hive.

As the Runner approaches Archer, the Corp uses both counters on Project Atlas to pull two copies of Scorched Earth into HQ. In order to rez Archer, the Corp sacrifices Project Atlas, reducing his Agenda Point total to 2. The Runner breaks the last 3 subroutines, giving the Corp 2 credits.

Board State after Archer:
Runner: 13-6=7 credits, 4 cards in hand
Corp: 13-4+2=11 credits, 2 Agenda points

As the Runner approaches Hive, the Corp uses False Lead to sacrifice it for no effect, reducing his Agenda Point total to 1. Curtain Wall now has 4 subroutines, more than the Runner can break (it would require 8 credits). The run ends. As the run ends, the Runner takes 1 Brain Damage, trashing a card from his hand.

Board State after Run:
Runner: 7 credits, 3 cards in hand.
Corp: 11-5=6 credits, 1 Agenda point.

The Corp plays both Scorched Earths - the first wipes out all counters on Plascrete Carapace and the second deals 4 damage to the Runner, flatlining the Runner.

NOTE: If the Runner broke the first subroutine on Archer, denying the Corp 2 credits, the Corp can play Beanstalk Royalties on his first click to gain the necessary credits.

EDIT: I meant Hive, not Curtain Wall.




What - they solved it already? What am I paying you sysops for anyway? Fine, fine. Get them out of here. Make sure they each get chipped on the way out, too.

And while you're at it, get me in touch with whoever is putting out those ridiculously-named Grail ice!

* * * * * *

Good job Ripshawd

I'm pretty sure that's the only possible solution, unless anyone else has any thoughts?


Uh, where's the tag? nvm, joshua B, but honestly, not sure who uses jb against weyland.
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gumOnShoe wrote:
TestTones wrote:
Ripshawd wrote:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The first piece of ice is an Archer, followed by a Hive.

As the Runner approaches Archer, the Corp uses both counters on Project Atlas to pull two copies of Scorched Earth into HQ. In order to rez Archer, the Corp sacrifices Project Atlas, reducing his Agenda Point total to 2. The Runner breaks the last 3 subroutines, giving the Corp 2 credits.

Board State after Archer:
Runner: 13-6=7 credits, 4 cards in hand
Corp: 13-4+2=11 credits, 2 Agenda points

As the Runner approaches Hive, the Corp uses False Lead to sacrifice it for no effect, reducing his Agenda Point total to 1. Curtain Wall now has 4 subroutines, more than the Runner can break (it would require 8 credits). The run ends. As the run ends, the Runner takes 1 Brain Damage, trashing a card from his hand.

Board State after Run:
Runner: 7 credits, 3 cards in hand.
Corp: 11-5=6 credits, 1 Agenda point.

The Corp plays both Scorched Earths - the first wipes out all counters on Plascrete Carapace and the second deals 4 damage to the Runner, flatlining the Runner.

NOTE: If the Runner broke the first subroutine on Archer, denying the Corp 2 credits, the Corp can play Beanstalk Royalties on his first click to gain the necessary credits.

EDIT: I meant Hive, not Curtain Wall.




What - they solved it already? What am I paying you sysops for anyway? Fine, fine. Get them out of here. Make sure they each get chipped on the way out, too.

And while you're at it, get me in touch with whoever is putting out those ridiculously-named Grail ice!

* * * * * *

Good job Ripshawd

I'm pretty sure that's the only possible solution, unless anyone else has any thoughts?


Uh, where's the tag? nvm, joshua B, but honestly, not sure who uses jb against weyland.


Anyone who has good reason to believe that's a 5/3 agenda, so this is the end of the game either way. Using Josh B is a fine idea here (though I'm skeptical that it was a good idea to install it in the first place...).
 
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John Thornby
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Azeltir wrote:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
As for the solution that calls for you to sacrifice your False Lead to no effect, I'm not sure if that's legal. The FAQ states "A player cannot trigger an action/ability unless he is also able to resolve it." This has previously been taken to mean that you can't execute an ability if it doesn't affect the game state outside of the cost - i.e. you can't play Diesel with an empty stack. False Lead's "if able" wording makes it a little confusing though.


Spoiler (click to reveal)
You can't take an action that leaves the game state unchanged, but sacrificing False Lead changes the Corp's score so there is a change in board position.
 
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Ben Finkel
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xenakis wrote:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
You can't take an action that leaves the game state unchanged, but sacrificing False Lead changes the Corp's score so there is a change in board position.


You could say the same thing about any action that has a cost, i.e. the Diesel scenario mentioned above. The point is that if the effect doesn't change the board position, the action is illegal, whether or not paying the cost changes anything.
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Sebastian Zarzycki
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This was a tough one. But I've finally figured it out.

First piece of ICE - Haagen-Dazs Cookies'n'Cream



Second piece of ICE - Magnum Almond



Where do I go for the prize?
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Jacob Morris
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Spoiler (click to reveal)
I'm afraid Azeltir is right. You cannot forfeit a False Lead that would have no effect. Please see the ruling here, which was made official in FAQ 1.5. There are plenty of other solutions being posted here, though, so still a cool puzzle!
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Simon C
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jakodrako wrote:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
I'm afraid Azeltir is right. You cannot forfeit a False Lead that would have no effect. Please see the ruling here, which was made official in FAQ 1.5. There are plenty of other solutions being posted here, though, so still a cool puzzle!


Spoiler (click to reveal)
There's a difference between trashing a card (the example of Archived Memories in the reference from Lukas you link to) and forfeiting an Agenda. In particular, you're changing the score. And in this case, you can forfeit it in the approach to Hive (after the rez) at which point there is very definitely an effect. Surely that's got to be a legal play?
 
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Jacob Morris
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LeonardQuirm wrote:
jakodrako wrote:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
I'm afraid Azeltir is right. You cannot forfeit a False Lead that would have no effect. Please see the ruling here, which was made official in FAQ 1.5. There are plenty of other solutions being posted here, though, so still a cool puzzle!


Spoiler (click to reveal)
There's a difference between trashing a card (the example of Archived Memories in the reference from Lukas you link to) and forfeiting an Agenda. In particular, you're changing the score. And in this case, you can forfeit it in the approach to Hive (after the rez) at which point there is very definitely an effect. Surely that's got to be a legal play?


Spoiler (click to reveal)
The rules simply don't allow for it. The effect of False Lead is to make the Runner lose clicks. If that effect does not resolve, then you cannot activate that ability. It's a cute play and I know it would be neat to use that interaction to your advantage as such, but the rules as currently written and explained do not allow it.
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