GeekGold Bonus for All Supporters at year's end: 1000!
10,385 Supporters
$15 min for supporter badge & GeekGold bonus
14 Days Left

Support:

Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
24 Posts

Myth» Forums » Rules

Subject: Clearing a Tile question rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
mariana crispim
Germany
Hawaii
flag msg tools
mb
Hey,

I have a question on the situation when you clear a tile.

Does the Darkness-AP get back to zero ? Or does it get back to zero when you setup the next tile ?

I saw the gameplay videos on the myth hp. On the first tiles they reseted the AP, on the last tile with the boss fight they dont.

When the AP would not reset, the heroes could just spend some AP to set it to 6. Since tile is clear and no active minions are there, the darkness card would be not drawn anyway. And they could move to the next tile with 0 AP.
However, I cant find a rule about it in any rulebook out now.


 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Pruden
Canada
Alberta
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
AP don't officially reset. But most think it's too silly to have to play cards to reset the AP and continue. I'd say go with what you thinks feels best to you.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Roman Rybiczka
Austria
flag msg tools
publisher
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
mari2k wrote:
Hey,

When the AP would not reset, the heroes could just spend some AP to set it to 6. Since tile is clear and no active minions are there, the darkness card would be not drawn anyway. And they could move to the next tile with 0 AP.




In our first game the same question came up. The group decided to handle it like you just described it. But personally I didnt like that because it felt like we just cheated. In the coming game sessions i will let the ap where they currently are.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Phil McDonald
England
Staffordshire
UK
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thematically, it is logical to me that the darkness is reset when you clear a tile.

When a game ruling is unclear, you won't go far wrong if you use that principle.

Your game, and as long as you are not TRYING to cheat, where is the harm?

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
mariana crispim
Germany
Hawaii
flag msg tools
mb
Thanks for the answers !

Yes, the point is that according to the rules it does not reset, but in this situation its easy to cheat.

As a strategy gamer I naturaly want to min/max things, but I dont wont to the feeling that Im cheating.
I think maybe I houserule this that the AP freezes when tile is cleared. And Since AP cant not go up, loitering is rising at the end of turn. So you have the opportunity to prepare for the next room, without worring about cheating with AP.
Thematicly it would fit, the Darkness is not preset in the tile but did not forget what Ive done here



 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Phil McDonald
England
Staffordshire
UK
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
mari2k wrote:
Thanks for the answers !

Yes, the point is that according to the rules it does not reset, but in this situation its easy to cheat.

As a strategy gamer I naturaly want to min/max things, but I dont wont to the feeling that Im cheating.
I think maybe I houserule this that the AP freezes when tile is cleared. And Since AP cant not go up, loitering is rising at the end of turn. So you have the opportunity to prepare for the next room, without worring about cheating with AP.
Thematicly it would fit, the Darkness is not preset in the tile but did not forget what Ive done here




The darkness is not a concious entity, but whatever you feel comfortable with
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Ganshaw
United States
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
The FAQ specifically states it is an acceptable practice to play AP cards, once a tile has been cleared, in order to hit 6 and reset the Darkness meter.
So one should not feel that they are somehow cheating the system.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jarad Bond
United States
Anchorage
Alaska
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Just throwing out a house rule:

I'm pretty sure an official rule is that when you step onto the next tile after clearing a tile, the AP is reset to 0. I read it somewhere, either the rulebook or one of the posts from the designers. Can anyone back me up on that rule? If not, I might try to find it again and quote it.

Assuming I am correct, our house rule is to simply move the heroes to the edge of the next tile for free, draw a new hand, and reset AP upon clearing. That way you can't "cheat" to heal up in between combats. You also can't "cheat" to cycle through the deck to get a good card for the beginning of the new tile.

The only potential for gaining any kind of benefit is that you will avoid the chance to be randomly punished for getting a completely bum round of hands and thus be loitering. Playing by the official rules, it might take you 2 or 3 hero cycles to walk all the way across a big tile. I don't consider it a part of the game to be positioned at the far end of the tile when combat is over. Totally breaks the fourth wall.

So, this rule improves the game for us. It always felt like we were running three-legged sack races to get across the empty tile anyway.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
San Antonio
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I believe the official rule is that the AP stays unless you end up with a trap on the next tile that resets it. Threat resets automatically.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tyrone ..................
United States
Salt Lake City
Utah
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It's been so long ago that I don't remember where it was found but my understanding is also that the official rule says the AP resets to 0 along with all players threat once a tile is cleared.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
MM
United States
Indianapolis
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
rccoll wrote:
It's been so long ago that I don't remember where it was found but my understanding is also that the official rule says the AP resets to 0 along with all players threat once a tile is cleared.


Don't think so Guys. There's been many discussions on BGG regarding the whole tile clearing mechanic and how you get double movement once the tile clears. The intent is for us to play cards (generating AP possibly) to get to the next tile. You could potentially start the next tile with 5 AP if played that way. Many have pointed out that you could "game" the system and trigger the darkness (which does nothing) on an cleared tile before moving to the next tile in order to get the AP back to zero. Because of that, many suggested resetting the AP to zero as house rules (I do). There is nothing, however, in the manual/FAQ that says to reset AP to Zero on a tile clear.

Official FAQ wrote:


Fan Based Manual rewrite wrote:
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jarad Bond
United States
Anchorage
Alaska
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks, MM. =)

I think I may have read it and absorbed it from the Unofficial FAQ back from before there was an Official FAQ.

The unofficial FAQ states that you reset threat and AP when entering a new tile if the old one was cleared. It also says that this was determined from an "Official Megacon Games Response", but that official source wasn't cited, so I'm willing to let it go. It was a long time and a patch ago.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe Walton
United States
Westerville
Ohio
flag msg tools
logris wrote:
Just throwing out a house rule:

That way you can't "cheat" to heal up in between combats. You also can't "cheat" to cycle through the deck to get a good card for the beginning of the new tile.


Yes, I agree with this. As the rules stand, if you have the acolyte, there's no reason why you cannot have When you enter a new tile:

- AP reset to 0
- a really good starting hand for the next tile
- all heroes at full vitality
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian Wright
United States
des plaines
Illinois
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmb
I just reset the AP to 0 and do a hand refresh, then teleport to the next tile edge. Its what we would do anyways, but without needless shuffling, etc.

The whole loitering mechanic needs to be reworked for that not to make sense.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
San Antonio
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I set threat to 0, reset cards, and recover 1 vitality for each hero. To cure completely is too much; the darkness is looking for you; you'd be discovered by a hunting party if you camped indefinitely. This seems fair.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wallace MacBix
msg tools
Squatting Monkey wrote:
I set threat to 0, reset cards, and recover 1 vitality for each hero. To cure completely is too much; the darkness is looking for you; you'd be discovered by a hunting party if you camped indefinitely. This seems fair.


Though still not what the rules state (though fine for your own homebrew). Also, I'd happily fight 3 grubbers while the Acolyte gets more healing cards out.

Way back when, when the US got wave 1, the MERCs guys (can't remember if it was Brian or Kenny) said that it was clearly in the intention of the game that the heroes can "camp" a tile to fully heal before moving on.

As for moving onto a new tile depending on the tile size you could have 1 turn or many turns while you stagger towards the other end. In a 4x6, you'd be already be at the other end by the time you cleared the tile, but in a 12x24 you could be 3-8 turns away from the edge your group decides to leave from.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wallace MacBix
msg tools
midwayman wrote:
I just reset the AP to 0 and do a hand refresh, then teleport to the next tile edge. Its what we would do anyways, but without needless shuffling, etc.

The whole loitering mechanic needs to be reworked for that not to make sense.


Really the loitering mechanic only hurts your for the first Act or so of your first (maybe as far as 3rd) Story. After about 6 Acts you most likely have almost no white tokens left (and all 5 blue ones), which means you need less draws to get good loot. Plus you'll have a title or two which means you need less draws to get your ideal set up. By the time you get your 3rd title, pretty much every hero is set. You don't need to draw any loot after that.

I was kinda annoyed when playing the 2nd Act in the 2nd story in the book, because you will almost surely get a loitering penalty at least once. You can't play move cards without going backwards, and for most heroes that's how you can generate AP on a cleared tile. I think we ended up getting hit with the penalty 3 times, it would have been more if our Apprentice didn't get lucky with AP generating Ongoing cards.

Then again, it "hardly" mattered, by then (our 2nd Act) we had every green item in the deck and two blue items. Plus the 3, 4x6 tiles didn't generate any treasure anyways. I still don't know what the consensus is on how minions + traps work for AP generation (or if it's changed from v1.0), so we didn't have any hunting packs.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
San Antonio
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm a thematic gamer; I feel that each hero cycle there would be a pending threat of discovery. So even if a large tile takes more time to cross, I like to think the chance of someone entering the chamber and discovering you would not lesson. As for homebrew, most of this game feels homebrew; that is what makes it so good. It works well for me
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jarad Bond
United States
Anchorage
Alaska
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Squatting Monkey wrote:
I'm a thematic gamer; I feel that each hero cycle there would be a pending threat of discovery.


So, do you have a houserule to allow that to happen? Or do you mean triggering the loitering penalty?

Loitering simply punishes you by causing you to lose treasure while you repeatedly shuffle your cards to get across the tile.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
San Antonio
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Instead of actually taking the loitering penalty or even playing through the motions, I love to the tile edge, reset threat, recover one health and reset cards --no more no less. I was saying that I don't agree with people who reset all health. As for loitering, you only have to play one ap per hc to prevent it, so does it really happen?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jarad Bond
United States
Anchorage
Alaska
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I see. =) We don't play with loitering either. We just make sure the darkness net increases at least one per HC. Tiles cleared, we don't heal, we just move to the edge and reset cards. But healing 1hp sounds like a nice rule.

Yes, loitering happens... especially with 2p. Most hero cards are attacks, meaning you can't play them without a target. If you have 5p, odds are that someone will always have a move card when the tile has been cleared. But if you have to do the "mad shuffle" across a tile that you just cleared (one of us is often back at the entrance), then you can easily get a hand without any move cards.

It's not every time. We'd normally get hit once or twice per game, but it's peeving because loitering is supposed to punish you for hanging around and gaming the system, not for random dumb luck. And it shouldn't punish 2p way more than 5p, if it were a good rule.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wallace MacBix
msg tools
logris wrote:
I see. =) We don't play with loitering either. We just make sure the darkness net increases at least one per HC. Tiles cleared, we don't heal, we just move to the edge and reset cards. But healing 1hp sounds like a nice rule.

Yes, loitering happens... especially with 2p. Most hero cards are attacks, meaning you can't play them without a target. If you have 5p, odds are that someone will always have a move card when the tile has been cleared. But if you have to do the "mad shuffle" across a tile that you just cleared (one of us is often back at the entrance), then you can easily get a hand without any move cards.

It's not every time. We'd normally get hit once or twice per game, but it's peeving because loitering is supposed to punish you for hanging around and gaming the system, not for random dumb luck. And it shouldn't punish 2p way more than 5p, if it were a good rule.


Agreed, the loitering mechanic really does need work. Besides punishing fewer players it also punishes newer players. By the time you have ~3 titles or so, your treasure bag is also most likely perfect. Who cares if you get 1 less treasure per title, when you hardly need any draws?

That aside, look at any 4x6 trap. They do NOT play well with the loitering mechanic at all. You will almost assuredly loiter or fail the trap/potentially kill someone because you don't want to loiter.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
mariana crispim
Germany
Hawaii
flag msg tools
mb
Hey,

Is there maybe now an official answer to this problem ?
I saw in 2.0 rules that AP are cleared when there is a trap on the tile, which means for me, that it is NOT cleared when there is no trap, right ?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jarad Bond
United States
Anchorage
Alaska
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
mari2k wrote:
Hey,

Is there maybe now an official answer to this problem ?
I saw in 2.0 rules that AP are cleared when there is a trap on the tile, which means for me, that it is NOT cleared when there is no trap, right ?

I am inclined to agree with that statement, yes. I think clearing AP was never an official rule except for traps, perhaps. You've heard all the house-rulings in this post that make the game more fun, though, so consider trying one of them.

We tried to follow the official rules at first, but there were so many disparaging remarks while we drew and discarded cards trying to hop across the tile, that we quickly changed that part of the game. I was a little embarrassed to stick to the "rules" when there was nothing interesting going on, so that's how we decided to "fast-forward"...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.