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Subject: Alchemy + [Undercover Agents OR Infiltrations] rss

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Eric Franklin
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Okay ... what happens if:

Player A (Orange) has Undercover Agents and special B.

Player B (Blue) has Alchemy

Player A plays [Blue][Grey][*] and uses the Espionage to copy Alchemy. This lets them draw a cube from their bag, return a non-grey cube to the supply, and then add a non-grey cube to the bag.
Then they advance one of the sliders by two.

Since they removed the [*] slot from the Undercover Agents, they can put the cube they just drew from the bag back into that slot and do it all over again.

And again.

Once they have one of the cube advance sliders to the end, drop it back down to the bottom, and go again.

By doing this, players will be able to eventually put every cube from the supply into their bag. It'll be one very long very slow turn. But it gives Player A a LOT of points. If they don't hit a grey cube. If Player A has set up as above and only has Undercover Agents, they won't hit a grey cube.

If player A has Infiltrations instead of Undercover Agents, then they can set up a similar loop and will be able to reset every single turn.

Is my group missing a rule? Are we overlooking something?
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Lucas Hedgren
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The rules, page 13 wrote:
IMPORTANT: In the case where a player removes a cube to gain a different cube, this new cube is positioned in place of the removed cube, even if it would not be possible due to color requirement.


When you do Alchemy, the cube you toss away gets replaced where it came from. This is a biggie, and one I have seen others miss.
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Eric Franklin
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boomtron wrote:
The rules, page 13 wrote:
IMPORTANT: In the case where a player removes a cube to gain a different cube, this new cube is positioned in place of the removed cube, even if it would not be possible due to color requirement.


When you do Alchemy, the cube you toss away gets replaced where it came from. This is a biggie, and one I have seen others miss.


AHA! That BIG RED TEXT somehow was overlooked.

THANK YOU!
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mfl134
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What if you just copied smugglers instead of alchemy?
 
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Lucas Hedgren
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mfl134 wrote:
What if you just copied smugglers instead of alchemy?


Yep, Michael, that seems a problem. Hmm. Espionage (or more accurately, Undercover Agents) makes things weird.

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Maurizio Vergendo
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mfl134
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boomtron wrote:
mfl134 wrote:
What if you just copied smugglers instead of alchemy?


Yep, Michael, that seems a problem. Hmm. Espionage makes things weird.

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Maurizio Vergendo
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my solution is no espionage. Though it seems the stategic solution is never get smugglers as it overpowers espionage.
 
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Anthony Rubbo
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Or change Espionage - the icon is generic enough to not cause major pain. Change to something like "View the top 2 cards of a tech deck; use and discard 1" or "Advance Sauron 1".
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Lloyd Crosby
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We had this happen tonight while playing.

I was the coral throne and had no cubes left in my bag. I used my last orange cube to complete Undercover Agents. I move my civ track up 2 and then use espionage to copy smugglers to remove the orange cube back to my bag, then drew it out again. At this point I could have repeated the process as much as I wanted going 2 up the civ track each time.

Please explain how this is not an infinite loop that puts all my civ tracks at the max?

We played a house rule that you could only activate a card once per turn with Espionage.
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Maurizio Vergendo
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Hello everyone and sorry for the late reply... we're very busy working on our next super secret project

Jokes aside I saw there are lots of questions regarding Espionage, cube restoration effects and their interactions.

Here's some rulings/clarifications. Anything official I write in these forums will also go in the FAQs and be uploaded soon.

- Espionage effects cannot target other advanced technologies with Espionage on it. Neither can effects generated by an Espionage effect.

- Cube restoration effects cannot target the advanced technology that generated the effect.

So if Undercover Agents targets Smugglers the cube restoration effect cannot target Undercover Agents itself or another advanced technology card with espionage effect on it.

In the past I might have written a different ruling on this, and I am sorry for that. I will be more careful and less hasty when writing rulings in the future, you have my word

So, to clarify one more time, this is an official ruling and will be published in the FAQ file in the next update.

Thank you again for your interest in Hyperborea

-- Maurizio
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Lloyd Crosby
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Maurizio, thank you. That makes sense and will be easy to integrate into game play.
I really appreciate your responses to our questions here on the geek forums.
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stephen biggs
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ziomauri wrote:
- Cube restoration effects cannot target the advanced technology that generated the effect.

So if Undercover Agents targets Smugglers the cube restoration effect cannot target Undercover Agents itself or another advanced technology card with espionage effect on it.

...

So, to clarify one more time, this is an official ruling and will be published in the FAQ file in the next update.
-- Maurizio


Not yet added to FAQ at ver-1.2
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