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Subject: Does if feel like Imperial usually wins? rss

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Sam Hatch
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I know that tournaments and world champs have used the rebels and won, but it seems like almost every time WE play, the imperials win quite easily.

I mean when we start and the rebel player reads out his upgrades etc, it seems like the rebels have SO much firepower and advantage, but in reality, it always ends up that it's all too easy for the imps, since they just move so fast and are hard to hit.

It seems like with imps, you can just focus fire on a rebel ship, take it out, and there's now a gaping hole in the rebel fleet...and all that's ship cards and cool perks are gone. (obviously)

We have most of the ships in the game, so it's not for lack of models.

Does anyone else have the same problem? Now it's got the point where most of my gaming group wants to be the imps, since it feels like such an advantage.

Any tips or thoughts for a newish (2 months) player regarding this problem?
 
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ladofdestiny wrote:
I know that tournaments and world champs have used the rebels and won, but it seems like almost every time WE play, the imperials win quite easily.

I mean when we start and the rebel player reads out his upgrades etc, it seems like the rebels have SO much firepower and advantage, but in reality, it always ends up that it's all too easy for the imps, since they just move so fast and are hard to hit.

It seems like with imps, you can just focus fire on a rebel ship, take it out, and there's now a gaping hole in the rebel fleet...and all that's ship cards and cool perks are gone. (obviously)

We have most of the ships in the game, so it's not for lack of models.

Does anyone else have the same problem? Now it's got the point where most of my gaming group wants to be the imps, since it feels like such an advantage.

Any tips or thoughts for a newish (2 months) player regarding this problem?


Are you using asteroids?
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Dennis Godballe
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How many points are you using on upgrades on rebel ships?

I have found that a lot of people, not able to succeed with rebel ships dumps a lot of points into a lot of secondary weapons and upgrades they don't really need.

Generally speaking, if you are using more than 10 points on upgrades, you should rethink and if you are using more than 15 points, well, then you better have one special combo that can win you the game more often than not.

This is in standard 100 pts play.

Also, the Imperial Side, are they always flying with a lot of ships? Try Imperial Elite builds instead. And if the Imperials always fly a lot of ships (and even in formation) do equip a couple of the rebel ships with Assault Missiles to improve chances...
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Waspinator
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I would suspect your Rebels are using terrible builds. Can you post an example?
 
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J H
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I'm curious about the broad strokes of the lists involved. Is it mostly large Imperial swarms against 3 ship Rebel elites with a bunch of upgrades (sounds like that may be the case as you talked about all the Rebel cards read out at the beginning)? Or 3 high PS Interceptors (or whatever) against 4 or 5 more generic Rebs? Or some other combination?

How many missiles/torps are the Rebels fielding, on average? More than zero is too many. laugh
Flechette/Assault/IPM with Failsafe or something with Blount, though, might work out, but the worth of expendable secondaries should be carefully considered.

Also, I really don't play Rebel very often, so it's quite a bit tougher for me to fly well if I switch. Is your group more practiced and skilled with the more maneuverable Imperial ships?

EDIT: semi-ninja'd... distracted watching football
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Ryan Caputo
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Are you using the Force?
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Rebels dominate in my area, though the Phantom is starting to give a good boost to imperials.

-shnar
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Daniel Blue
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From my personal experience I would think for new players rebel would be much easier to win with. Just run simple basic stuff. 2 Blue B-Wings with Wedge and Biggs. Throw swarm tactics on wedge. Just simple 4 ship rebel builds is tough to beat for newer players I think.
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Gary Howard
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I've found the game to be really well balanced. I've beaten TIE swarms with three ships before - On Tuesday a loaded E wing, Elite A wing and lowbie A wing managed to decimate a TIE swarm only losing the crappy A wing.

Then in the following game, I switched the A wings for X wings and was absolutely dominated. I lost the shiny E wing to a little present from a TIE bomber.

I personally am not great at running with less maneuverable ships, so tend to steer clear of the X wing if I want a win. Are there any particular set ups you're struggling with, or is it just the faction in general?
 
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Allen T
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Insert Falcon with Han, C3PO, Title, Determination/PtL/Predator, Gunner/Luke. Draw additional pilots from a box until you have 100 points.

(not really. Pick a couple X Wings, or a handful of Z95s, or Corran Horn with PtL and R2D2. You'll be playing with a similar squad to almost half the top 8 players at the Nationals tournaments)
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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monkeykins wrote:
Insert Falcon with Han, C3PO, Title, Determination/PtL/Predator, Gunner/Luke. Draw additional pilots from a box until you have 100 points.

(not really. Pick a couple X Wings, or a handful of Z95s, or Corran Horn with PtL and R2D2. You'll be playing with a similar squad to almost half the top 8 players at the Nationals tournaments)

My favorite Han squad is:
- Han Solo: C-3PO, Swarm Tactics, Millennium Falcon
- Gold Squadron Y-Wing: R2 Astromech, Ion Cannon Turret
- Gold Squadron Y-Wing: R2 Astromech, Ion Cannon Turret

The 360 helps, love ionizing ships, and Han's Swarm Tactics is highly useful to counter the lower skilled Ys. Have had no problems against imp builds.

-shnar
 
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Alex Cheng
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In my area, Imperials are almost always winning. Tons of TIE swarms and now a lot of Phantoms seeing play.

In my group, wins seem to sway a little with new releases. It always feels like FF's efforts to balance always go too far, wave after wave. Again, that's just with my gaming group though.

That said I've been having a lot of luck recently running Han and Jan Ors only and upgraded to the teeth. 360 degrees and 5 attack dice on Han with Assault Missles and Munitions Failsafe, with Jan ionizing to disrupt.
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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jetjagaa wrote:
That said I've been having a lot of luck recently running Han and Jan Ors only and upgraded to the teeth. 360 degrees and 5 attack dice on Han with Assault Missles and Munitions Failsafe, with Jan ionizing to disrupt.

If Phantoms are bugging, swap Jan out with Roark, and give Han Swarm Tactics. The two would both have PS 12! And with 2 turrets, they'd be able to take out phantoms pretty quickly.

-shnar
 
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Aaron Dean
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One quick tip for the OP, as you mentioned that you are a relatively new player, are you still always giving the imperials initiative? You'd be surprised how much of a difference this makes in the maneuvering/positioning aspect of the game. Make sure that when you decide initiative for ties that you roll for it.
 
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Marcel van der pol
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Quote:
I know that tournaments and world champs have used the rebels and won, but it seems like almost every time WE play, the imperials win quite easily.

I mean when we start and the rebel player reads out his upgrades etc, it seems like the rebels have SO much firepower and advantage, but in reality, it always ends up that it's all too easy for the imps, since they just move so fast and are hard to hit.

It seems like with imps, you can just focus fire on a rebel ship, take it out, and there's now a gaping hole in the rebel fleet...and all that's ship cards and cool perks are gone. (obviously)

We have most of the ships in the game, so it's not for lack of models.

Does anyone else have the same problem? Now it's got the point where most of my gaming group wants to be the imps, since it feels like such an advantage.

Any tips or thoughts for a newish (2 months) player regarding this problem?


So what kind of lists are you loosing a LOT against? Tie swarms should bite the dust against 2 B-Wings with Ion Cannon and 2 Y-Wings with Ion Turret flown in a good formation. The Ion damage will hurt their maneuvering a LOT and the Rebels have a LOT of hit points. Stay in formation though; never break off to engage a Tie on your own; keep the formation intact and you will see that the Imperial will have a very tough time exploiting their maneuvering advantage.
 
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JD Dibrell
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Lol that's actually kinda funny. X-Wing is one of the most balanced games I've ever played, especially compared to the horribly unbalanced 40k. But yet I'm used to reading that rebels are too powerful. My gf plays imperials & wins about 50/50 & we own everything.
 
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Glitchy Predator
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It's funny, I tend to have the exact opposite experience, where the rebels run all over the empire. I think a lot of it has to do with your play style and which faction fits best for you. The phantom and defender are really the first two empire ships I feel I can fly really well.
 
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Vayda
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It's damned near half at our league:



Rebel Win: 126
Imps win 133
Total Points:
75,777 (both sides)

Total Games:
377 (118 unranked- meaning r vs r or I vs I)

4/13-4/14: Imp 101/101, Reb 101/101. Total: 54,522 points, 278 Games (76 unranked). Tie Break: Imp!
 
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Sam Hatch
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Hey guys, thanks for all the feedback.

For those asking what builds we have tried, here's a few I can somewhat remember:

Build 1:
Tycho with PTL
Luke with determination, r2 d2, fletchette torpedoes
Generic e-wing guy with an astromech, and the missiles you can get two shots with

Build 2:
Luke with r2d2
B wing with HLC
Biggs
Moldy crow with the 360 turret and a few other good upgrades (sorry, can't remember)
(Yes build 2 was more than a 100 point game)

The imps usually use something like
Soonter fel with PTL
phantoms with advanced cloaking or recon
Random no name ties to fill in the numbers


The problems seem to be:

imps just have soonter with push the limit, so he's high PS and can get focus, evade, stress and focus pretty much every go that he wants it (very easy for him to lose stress too), so he's basically impossible to hit since he has 2 focus and 1 evade so often, and also can just barrel roll and boost out of firing arcs as his other option.

Phantoms with advanced cloak just shoot then cloak and are also really hard to hit. Plus they shoot FIVE dice at range one, so they just hit so hard. Match that with that massive uncloacking barrel roll that puts them anywhere they want to be, and it just feels like there's SO much advantage.

Those two ships alone seem like they almost never take a hit cos of the massive turtling abilities.

Add a few generic ties in the mix, and there's imps all over the shop. They shoot down ONE rebel, and it's a snowball from there.

And yes, we're using asteroids, for the person who asked that.
We roll for initiative
We may or may not be using the force...

Fell free to educate me folks, I'm all ears! We love the game, and know it IS balanced, but we want it to work out more that way for us.

 
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Jeff Dunford
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There are no turrets in your Rebel squads. Throw in some turrets (eg Chewbacca + Predator with Roark and a Gold Y-wing as sidekicks?) and watch the Phantom go "pop."
 
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Glitchy Predator
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No turrets (HWK doesn't really count as much of one...) and only 3 ship builds.

4 ship builds for the rebels will be much more difficult to beat, and if you really are on the struggle boat with the rebels, throw out a falcon.
 
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Glitchy Predator
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In fact start trying some of the more powerful Rebel builds like 2 x-wings and a falcon, or 2b 2x. Just give those a try. I've also had a lot of success running 4 Z-95s as a min-swarm next to one E-wing and that has worked pretty well.
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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I've had great success with this:

- Chewbacca: Millenium Falcon, Draw Their Fire, R2-D2, Han Solo
- Bandit Squadron Pilot (Z95)
- Bandit Squadron Pilot (Z95)
- Bandit Squadron Pilot (Z95)
- Bandit Squadron Pilot (Z95)

Fly the bandits in a tight formation with Chewbacca right behind them. On the Alpha Strike, the bandits will be at range 3 and Chewie will be out of range. Have the 4 bandits strike the same ship, and Chewie will strive to keep them alive by drawing their fire. Next round, 1 straight for each, and have all ships hit the same target again. You'll take out one or two ships early on, and maybe lose a bandit (the enemy tends to switch to hitting chewbacca on turn two, figuring it's the bigger threat).

Tricking your enemy into spreading their attacks on your ships (instead of focusing their fire) is key to surviving in this game. And the opposite is true: focusing your fire on one ship is key to winning.

The last tournament I was at, using the above strategy, in two games I lost one bandit. In two other games, I had 2 bandits almost dead, and Chewbacca with one or two hits left, but ultimately lost no ships. I went up against two 4 Rebel Ship builds, and 2 Imperials (one an few Ints and a Phantom). This build has done really well for me, you should give it a try.

-shnar
 
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Alex Cheng
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I'll mos def give that build a try next time—thanks for the advice.
 
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Sam Hatch
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iNano78 wrote:
There are no turrets in your Rebel squads. Throw in some turrets (eg Chewbacca + Predator with Roark and a Gold Y-wing as sidekicks?) and watch the Phantom go "pop."


The problem we still find, is phantoms advance cloaking, so they're basically always cloaked, and have at LEAST 4 defence dice, sometimes 5.

Same with Soonter Fel...having him with 3 defence dice, plus 2 focus and an evade just seems almost impossible to hit.

An x-wing shooting at him from range 2, one hit is cancelled already from the evade, and there's still 2 focuses in the bag for him to use.

How would you guys counter the Soonter with his PTL?

He's a great build, but I really don't want the game to turn into the entire gamut of cool ships that we have boiling down to one side always being Soonter, and the other side having to figure out a way to counter soonter...
 
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