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Star Trek: Attack Wing» Forums » General

Subject: Near the breaking point rss

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I've been a fan of STAW from the beginning. I abandoned X-Wing despite a big investment and focused on my favorite franchise. I have not been able to attend any OP events, so I'm one of those people who purchased prize ships via e-bay. I've not been brave enough to total up what I've spent, but it is more than $1500 on STAW. I have purchased at least one of everything commercially released, and often I've bought multiples. I've done this despite lots of little problems along the way.

I looked past the lack luster minis (Tinyprise and Excelsior, looking at you).

I shrugged off the Gencon debacle.

I gritted my teeth with quality control issues (missing items, badly punched ship bases, etc.).

I rolled my eyes at ridiculously bad printing mistakes (Kuvak with a Dominion faction symbol, really? And I still get a little twitch when I look at the Gr'oth mini.).

I gave up on customer service (is Wizkids the Comcast of board gaming?).

I ignored the complaining and criticisms over broken combos and overpowered Borg ships.

I don't begrudge exclusive or limited edition ships, even if I really want it and my OCD completionist side scream "I MUST HAVE THEM ALL!" (I can always shell out another $65 on e-Bay for a Stargazer if I really have to have it).

But...

This is a long list. Any one of them, no big deal. But all of them together is another story. And the list of minor issues keeps getting longer. One more straw is added to this gamer camels back, and I feel like I'm near the breaking point.

I'm not rage quitting. I'm not selling my collection for peanuts. I'm not pouting or throwing a fit.

But at some point, I'm going to throw in the towel and walk away because it just isn't worth it anymore. And that makes me kind of sad. Star Trek is an incredible IP and it seems like Wizkids is squandering it.

I hope someone at Wizkids decides that Star Trek Attack Wing and its fans are worth some effort and respect. Cause right now, I don't see all that much of either.

Wizkids, I've demonstrated I will spend my money on your game. But you've got a lot to do to earn it from this point forward. I hope you will.
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Mauziz
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Midwest Razorback wrote:
Wizkids, I've demonstrated I will spend my money on your game. But you've got a lot to do to earn it from this point forward. I hope you will.


Damn, that's how I'm starting to feel about the game. I'm kind of sitting and waiting to see if things right themselves or not. But that means that my gaming dollars are going elsewhere. NX-01 looks pretty sweet... but not sure I want to sink any more dollars into this game until I have hope for the future.
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Larry DeStefano
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brettscho wrote:
Midwest Razorback wrote:
Wizkids, I've demonstrated I will spend my money on your game. But you've got a lot to do to earn it from this point forward. I hope you will.


Damn, that's how I'm starting to feel about the game. I'm kind of sitting and waiting to see if things right themselves or not. But that means that my gaming dollars are going elsewhere. NX-01 looks pretty sweet... but not sure I want to sink any more dollars into this game until I have hope for the future.


I have little faith in wiz kids...but I think some things may happen.

1) It will get worse before better
2) We may see a 2nd edition with some major rule changes. Guess wiz-kids done it before
3) Wiz kid may sell it to another party.
4) The board game geek community will come up (and is) with some good variant ideas
5) Will keep the parts and add my own variants to improve the game or change it more to my liking and say the heck with wiz-kids OP games
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brettscho wrote:
Midwest Razorback wrote:
Wizkids, I've demonstrated I will spend my money on your game. But you've got a lot to do to earn it from this point forward. I hope you will.


Damn, that's how I'm starting to feel about the game. I'm kind of sitting and waiting to see if things right themselves or not. But that means that my gaming dollars are going elsewhere. NX-01 looks pretty sweet... but not sure I want to sink any more dollars into this game until I have hope for the future.


On one of the Facebook pages, someone is reporting getting an NX missing several tokens, including movement dial.
 
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hadrian132 wrote:
brettscho wrote:
Midwest Razorback wrote:
Wizkids, I've demonstrated I will spend my money on your game. But you've got a lot to do to earn it from this point forward. I hope you will.


Damn, that's how I'm starting to feel about the game. I'm kind of sitting and waiting to see if things right themselves or not. But that means that my gaming dollars are going elsewhere. NX-01 looks pretty sweet... but not sure I want to sink any more dollars into this game until I have hope for the future.


I have little faith in wiz kids...but I think some things may happen.

1) It will get worse before better
2) We may see a 2nd edition with some major rule changes. Guess wiz-kids done it before
3) Wiz kid may sell it to another party.
4) The board game geek community will come up (and is) with some good variant ideas
5) Will keep the parts and add my own variants to improve the game or change it more to my liking and say the heck with wiz-kids OP games


I'm keeping my stuff too. There is still a fun game here. But there is no reason to keep buying sub-par merchandise.
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Karl Hiesterman
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hadrian132 wrote:
5) Will keep the parts and add my own variants to improve the game or change it more to my liking and say the heck with wiz-kids OP games


This is what we're doing. We only play among ourselves, and we all wanted fleet battles based on the Star Trek TOS and the Star Fleet Battles/Prime Directive universes, so we've built our own. We've redone all the points on everything, new cards for everything, used other models as wanted/needed (Lou Zocchi Constitutions instead of Tinyprises, etc). It is not meant to be a perfect port of SFB, but is highly influenced by it, and uses the wonderful CONCEPTS of Attack Wing, without all the craziness generated by a marketing-driven game and mixed eras, factions, etc.

We're having fun with the game again.
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Larry DeStefano
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karlhiesterman wrote:
hadrian132 wrote:
5) Will keep the parts and add my own variants to improve the game or change it more to my liking and say the heck with wiz-kids OP games


This is what we're doing. We only play among ourselves, and we all wanted fleet battles based on the Star Trek TOS and the Star Fleet Battles/Prime Directive universes, so we've built our own. We've redone all the points on everything, new cards for everything, used other models as wanted/needed (Lou Zocchi Constitutions instead of Tinyprises, etc). It is not meant to be a perfect port of SFB, but is highly influenced by it, and uses the wonderful CONCEPTS of Attack Wing, without all the craziness generated by a marketing-driven game and mixed eras, factions, etc.

We're having fun with the game again.


Great!!! Yeah I had to replace the enterprise with some Amarillo design burea ships....just could use the little POS anymore LOL. Ever wanna post your changes I be interested to see them.. Maybe wiz kids as well LOL
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Penguin Bonaparte
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Yeah, there's definitely still fun to have with the game but I've at least had a hell of a time finding people who want to just play the missions or just have a fun casual session. The way the community's developed is OPs and prizes or bust, at least from my experience living in two different places.
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I feel you. I'm the local TO and a combination of the brisk pace of releases, the nature of the metagame and somewhat loose wording and abmiguous interactions, the GenCon fiasco, etc etc has me pretty burnt out.

I'm not giving up, but I might pare down a few factions from my collection and pull list.
 
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Eric Larson
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I played Mage knight, then mechwarrior, hero clix for a short minute, pirates of the Spanish Main. A few years ago I got into Star Trek clix. I thought it would be a good game with my kids, until we were unable to turn some ship dials!

Attack wing and the new dragon will be no different. Wiz kids has an amazing ability to ruin games. LEs are not the answer.
 
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...ARE there any other TNG-to-ENT Trek fleet battle games?

I kind of assumed we were all putting up with WizKids because they own the rights, and we're not going to see any other Trek game outside of SFB's independent circle.

It's not like all the SFB and related games went anywhere, it's just they're their own separate thing. If Starline 2400/2500 had TNG-to-ENT content, I'd just be buying those and throwing them on Attack Wing stands.
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cheezit wrote:
...ARE there any other TNG-to-ENT Trek fleet battle games?

I kind of assumed we were all putting up with WizKids because they own the rights, and we're not going to see any other Trek game outside of SFB's independent circle.

It's not like all the SFB and related games went anywhere, it's just they're their own separate thing. If Starline 2400/2500 had TNG-to-ENT content, I'd just be buying those and throwing them on Attack Wing stands.


This is making me crazy because there was a tabletop game where the ships were flat counters and you flipped them while keeping the front edge in place a number of times to measure movement, as well as a similar system for launching photons, and I swear I saw a Star Trek TNG game like that demo'ed at Gencon '01 but I can't find any info about it.

I don't know if it was worth a damn or not, but I can't even find evidence of its existence in supposedly complete lists of Trek tabletop games. I think it was based off some other tabletop game that used similar mechanics for like fantasy battles, but I can't for the life of me remember the name of said game.
 
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PanicAtTheSisko wrote:
cheezit wrote:
...ARE there any other TNG-to-ENT Trek fleet battle games?

I kind of assumed we were all putting up with WizKids because they own the rights, and we're not going to see any other Trek game outside of SFB's independent circle.

It's not like all the SFB and related games went anywhere, it's just they're their own separate thing. If Starline 2400/2500 had TNG-to-ENT content, I'd just be buying those and throwing them on Attack Wing stands.


This is making me crazy because there was a tabletop game where the ships were flat counters and you flipped them while keeping the front edge in place a number of times to measure movement, as well as a similar system for launching photons, and I swear I saw a Star Trek TNG game like that demo'ed at Gencon '01 but I can't find any info about it.

I don't know if it was worth a damn or not, but I can't even find evidence of its existence in supposedly complete lists of Trek tabletop games. I think it was based off some other tabletop game that used similar mechanics for like fantasy battles, but I can't for the life of me remember the name of said game.


Diskwars?
 
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Tacullu64 wrote:
Diskwars?


THANK YOU

http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/769/star-trek-red-alert
 
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Tacullu64 wrote:
PanicAtTheSisko wrote:
cheezit wrote:
...ARE there any other TNG-to-ENT Trek fleet battle games?

I kind of assumed we were all putting up with WizKids because they own the rights, and we're not going to see any other Trek game outside of SFB's independent circle.

It's not like all the SFB and related games went anywhere, it's just they're their own separate thing. If Starline 2400/2500 had TNG-to-ENT content, I'd just be buying those and throwing them on Attack Wing stands.


This is making me crazy because there was a tabletop game where the ships were flat counters and you flipped them while keeping the front edge in place a number of times to measure movement, as well as a similar system for launching photons, and I swear I saw a Star Trek TNG game like that demo'ed at Gencon '01 but I can't find any info about it.

I don't know if it was worth a damn or not, but I can't even find evidence of its existence in supposedly complete lists of Trek tabletop games. I think it was based off some other tabletop game that used similar mechanics for like fantasy battles, but I can't for the life of me remember the name of said game.


Diskwars?


DiskWars: Red Alert. I wish to god I still had some of that game.
 
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Blows my mind to find out there was a Warhammer Fantasy version of that. Gee Dubs doesn't seem like the kind of folks who'd want a simple counter-based alternative to their expensive pewter men.
 
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Brandon Holmes
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I am past my breaking point now. I may buy the next Enterprise that is coming out soon just to "complete" my collection but I am otherwise done purchasing Attack Wing items and I am going to TRY to avoid purchasing WizKids stuff entirely. Like the OP it is not one thing that got me to this point, but a number of issues that have piled up and continue to pile up. Basically I have lost all remaining respect I had for Wizkids.
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bholmes4 wrote:
I am past my breaking point now. I may buy the next Enterprise that is coming out soon just to "complete" my collection but I am otherwise done purchasing Attack Wing items and I am going to TRY to avoid purchasing WizKids stuff entirely. Like the OP it is not one thing that got me to this point, but a number of issues that have piled up and continue to pile up. Basically I have lost all remaining respect I had for Wizkids.


I was attending 3 different venues to play this game before GenCon and considered a fourth venue but have now decided to cut back to only my venue and only for the purpose of helping schedule and run the tournaments for the LGS. $20 for a tournament every month is a steep price on top of the monthly barrage of poorly designed ships.

Like the OP, I'm not pouting or rage quitting, I have no plans to sell my ships and I've gone through the release schedule to pick out a few I will want to get over the next 10 months. But I haven't played even a single game of this since coming home from GenCon and just have no inclination to get my ships out anytime soon. Maybe in November after I see what they do with Tactical Station - that was the proverbial straw for me.

I was really looking forward to picking up 2-3 scout cubes and an NX-01 (for the upgrade cards more than the ship), but I left them on the shelf at the LGS after giving it some hard thought. No game is worth continuing to support no matter what genre it's based on if the company that sells its product line and treats its customer base this way.
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Thomas Landy
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You forgot one: the rules department went from so-so to extremely poor.
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Tom B.
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On the flip side: I look forward to the homebrew tweaks and buying bulk used STAW lots for really cheap. Something something Trash, Treasure, and perspectives.

Not a lot of other options for TNG-thru-ENT tabletop resources, it would seem this is take what you can get.
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I'm about three shits ships from hanging up the spurs on this one too.

The lack of quality control and cohesion with the prior product line is what's turning me off.

I don't play tournaments or organized events so that does not factor in to my impression of the game.

I do enjoy the game but I can only eat so much Star Trek by for I need to V'ger gulp
 
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Ryan Caputo
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Wiz Kids is what it is....A collectable game maker. Everything they do, have done, and will do, will have 'collect them all' marketing as the priority, then balance and quality. When they design something without the blind aspect you better bet on the 'collect them all' will be utilized in some form or fashion. In this game they designed it around a shifting meta. Big Klingon combo comes out, people buy Klingon with multiples ships for one card in the pack (how many 2nd Div do you think sold for volley)

I have learned the best thing to do is to LIMIT your buys, STAYOUT of OPs or do them for fun, Never use the prizes. The game is much more fun...

Personally I wish I only would have bought the STO ships (old ships) and just played Khan vs Kirk and whatnot.

Take it from a guy who has 1500 beat by a mile.
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ryolacap wrote:
...multiples ships for one card in the pack (how many 2nd Div do you think sold for volley)


To be fair, the JH Cruiser is a great ship on its own merits, and well worth having 2-3 copies. If someone bought more than three, then yes, it was for Volleys.

Praetus/Cloaked Mines might be a better example.
 
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Thomas Ryan
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"Wiz Kids is what it is....A collectable game maker."

If they continue to act like that they will continue to lose costumers.
as a consumer you have the power to make them change...saying "it is what it is" is letting them continue to make poor product and decisions.
right now my money and time are going to companies that care about their product and customers.
 
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I'm definitely scaling back as well. I was excited about the Scout Cube but local stuff is banning the sphere and tac cube because they're so powerful, which takes away a lot of reasons to use it. I've had a number of ideas for recent OPs too that I just don't know if I can use because the rules aren't set. I'm in through the Enterprise E and the Diamond, probably the Scimitar, but I think it's primarily to have stuff in case I find a group that's into missions or I ever have a kid I can indoctrinate into Star Trek. I'll go through the Borg OP stuff I suppose, but it's more because there are a couple of fun guys locally and I like the idea of the Borg missions even if they're kind of fubar. Hell, X-wing people responded to me within 2 days to an email about a rules question. They sent me a replacement model immediately when part fell off.
 
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