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Subject: kickstarter: timeframe.... rss

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José Cepero
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hey guys,
I was wondering for some time (since the previous kickstarter in fact) why there is so much time between some 'parts' of such project.
I hope to get some usefull responses as to better understand this whole matter

So far I understand...by logic and not so because I have any experience that there will probably many steps from start to end. I don't want to go too far in detail but rawly it will be something like this:

*planning part from the first idea till the more or less "finished" product.
*setting up the kickstarter
*waiting for the pledge manager
*a period that the pledge manager will be open
*closing of the pledge manager till the start of the production
*production period itself
*shipping period

What I really wonder is what are they doing from the moment the kickstarter stops till the real "production" start?
I mean, we all now that the huge unpredictable periods are production and shipping.... because many reasons could influence those 2 in a bad way so all the time 'wasted' before would just be a pitty.
Right now, we are 6 weeks after the end of the kickstarter and they still arent sending surveys. knowing it would be open yet for several weeks and till that pledge manager isnt closed, they wouldnt even know exacly who wants what and by my logical understanding, they can only make an estimation of all that so no real production yet I suppose?
But my point is... we are then more then 2 months (maybe even almost 3) after the KS and what is the reason for that?

I always thought that if someone ends a KS, he wants to start as fast as possible

So far I can only think of reasons like the matter of payments between both Kickstarter (Amazon) and CMoN but wasnt that a question of maybe 2 weeks top?

I am just trying to understand those huge periods of "nothing" so it isnt a finger pointing matter now whistlelaugh
 
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Waggly Bean
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Perhaps it's where they're dealing with the production or shipping of some of their other projects that got funded before Zombicide S3?

I suppose they are juggling several games at once and so need to focus on just one for a few weeks during the most crucial parts of the production process for each game.

I could be completely wrong, but that's my guess.
 
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Brian Morris
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Here's another thing to think about. Factories that produce this kind of thing be they printers or what not have many customers and while they may have all the miniatures ready to go they may have to wait a bit for a slot to open up at the production facility. I know for example that after Chinese New Years the printers a lot of the boardgame publishers use in China get backed up as the result of the holiday and in the summer they get backed up as well as companies get products produced to be ready for Christmas.
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Rick S
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There are many, many, things that factor into the estimated shipping time.

The fact that there where so many people upset about season 2 fulfillment will likely make CMON work extra hard to fulfill this project in a timely manor. If you are already on the tip of your seat waiting for the project to arrive, you will probably be upset when the time does come.

When CMON says delivery February 2015, based on the projects I have backed they are saying that the first box will ship February 29 2015.

CMON is probably trying very hard to ship this kickstarter on time, or early. They most likely are planning on getting the games in January. They also are probably planning on delaying the game until January if it happens to be ready before, then they won't have to pay taxes on the inventory this year.
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Scott Hill
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bigblock75 wrote:
They most likely are planning on getting the games in January. They also are probably planning on delaying the game until January if it happens to be ready before, then they won't have to pay taxes on the inventory this year.

Wouldn't their financial year start in April?

Or is that a British thing?
 
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Rick S
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Scorpion0x17 wrote:
bigblock75 wrote:
They most likely are planning on getting the games in January. They also are probably planning on delaying the game until January if it happens to be ready before, then they won't have to pay taxes on the inventory this year.

Wouldn't their financial year start in April?

Or is that a British thing?


I am not completely sure.

The company I work for ends their year after January.
The company I worked for before that ended after December.
I think after December is when most US companies end their year, but I'm really not sure about the laws at all.

I think I remember that the mercs miniatures, myth kickstarter told backers that their accountant advised them not to take possession of the myth kickstarter in December unless they could unload it all before the new year. They lost their place in the manufactures queue and that is the domino that fell causing backers to still not have their product.
Edit: myth, update #80
 
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Part of the production process has begun with the molds for the miniatures being made. Molds are pretty expensive and one of the main reasons they need that KS money. There is a lot of back and forth with molds being remade etc. until everyone's happy.

Jorune
 
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Andrew Dale
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Scorpion0x17 wrote:
bigblock75 wrote:
They most likely are planning on getting the games in January. They also are probably planning on delaying the game until January if it happens to be ready before, then they won't have to pay taxes on the inventory this year.

Wouldn't their financial year start in April?

Or is that a British thing?


It's fairly common outside the public sector for year-ends to fall at other times of year unless the firm specifically wants to align to the fiscal year

edit: just read that back and realised how dull it sounds whistle
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José Cepero
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yes but my point is... why waiting that long before sending out surveys?
I might think that they really want to know what items/packs we actually want to buy and how many of each of those . So they have their final list of what to start working on and order.

Some reasons I could think of (conspiracy modus ninja )
1) by delaying the survey as long as possible they offer backers a way to invest more money (people getting more funds available)and so making more profit themselves (which I would understand)
2) By delaying the survey, they reduce the actual "waiting" time for the final product, since backers might start counting time from the end of the survey till receiving their rewards. So more a pshychological reason.

One year ago I was new to kickstarter since Zombicide S2 was my first project but now one year later, I backed like 10 projects so far (mostly boardgames and terrain) for a lot of money. I noticed so far more than often those huge timegaps till surveys are send out. I can tell you, if you have complicated and huge pledges in mind and you followed well the KS during the updates etc..., you really need to have it all wel noted down in detail because after 6 or 8 weeks I forgot about some important parts and matter. Projects that gave me headaches afterwards because of the zillion parts in it.
Last year I thought they were just messing up, being amateurs in handling such big projects... but now I might start thinking they got a briljant plan on this matter devil (they= those companies who start a kickstarter)

just my 2 cents
 
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You're over thinking it. They don't need to know how much to order until they start production. They are not 'printing' the game yet because of the other noted reasons (creating molds for mini's, waiting for a production que to open up).

With Essen around the corner, boardgame manufacturers are booked until after it. I don't see them starting production until end of year earliest. Due to the idea that people's address' change, KS projects tend to send out surveys as late as possible to keep the book keeping to a minimum.

Jorune
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Angelus Seniores
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I agree that there are many factors that play a part in this.

if they need to find a new 3rd party company for part of it,it might delay the project for the time needed to find a new company (for example changing production factory or a different artist for the art).

Also, a big point is that these games are not continuous jobs, as such an artist cant be hired for several years but only a few months or so, so again they need to see how it fits into the artist's agenda.
coupled with this, it can also depends how much work needs to be done (ie more or less stretch goals have been unlocked) before they can judge how long they need him, but in the meantime he might have received and accepted another job etc.

and it certainly is also dependent on how many other projects CMON will launch during the same period (there were several running along season 2)
 
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Tiff Reynolds
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While I don't know exactly what CMON is doing at this point, regarding the Kickstarter, I can make some guesses. Keep in mind, they are not the actual game designers / creators, that's Guillotine Games. So GG's designers can work in parallel to CMON's business activities, on finalizing art, rule books, proofreading text, etc. But CMON probably has to deal with the following:

- It takes 2 weeks before they receive payment from Kickstarter via Amazon. It isn't until this point that they know which of the 12,000+ backers will actually be receiving product.

- They can export backer data from Kickstarter at any time, but that's based on your Kickstarter account info. To be safe, they use their Kickstarter survey to ask for your preferred contact email.

- Now they have to match up the Kickstarter emails to the user-supplied emails from most people. Hopefully at least 2 different, detail-oriented people now need to cross-check and verify these addresses. This could take anywhere from several days to several weeks. Especially since a lot of people don't respond to the surveys right away, and some never reply at all. (then take to the comments and forums to complain loudly that they didn't get anything, but I digress...)

Speaking from experience here, I work as a web / database developer, and let me tell you - any time a user can enter data themselves, they will screw it up. Extra / missing / invalid characters, spaces where there shouldn't be... not to mention basic typos.

- Once they have the list of (12,000+) email addresses, they have to import these into their pledge manager system. At this point they need to either match them to existing customers (like me, I have backed several CMON projects) or create new customer records. Then double check and verify the import. I'd guess minimum 1-2 weeks.

- They also need to set up the pledge manager items for this Kickstarter. This can be done concurrently with the above steps, but if they have a small IT department they might not be able to do that. Each item needs to be entered correctly, with at least name, description, price, and shipping weight if they have it. Maybe a week for this.

- Shipping. Oh, the shipping. They now have us pay shipping based on what we actually order, which is both good and bad for them. Good, in that they won't take as much of a loss when shipping prices go up, or someone pledges for 1 game and buys 10 copies. Bad, in that some users will go into sticker shock when they see the actual costs later. And they also have to manage that cost in the system, with all the possibilities for error that introduces.

- Once all that is in place, they can email users the link to the pledge manager and start collecting specific order information.

- AND... also, additionally... they are a business, running normal business-y stuff all the time, PLUS several Kickstarters are in various stages of active at any given time. They aren't a huge company, so I can imagine their database gal is fairly busy all the time, plus the data entry folks and the QA people and and and... I doubt anyone is full-time on just one Kickstarter at a time, let alone a whole team.

Here's the date info I have on their Kickstarters, it looks like anywhere from a month and a half to two months to get the pledge manager out. I am sure others can provide info on the projects I didn't back:

Zombicide 1 (39 days)
Ended May 6, 2012
Kickstarter survey May 7, 2012
Pledge Manager sent June 14, 2012

Guilds of Cadwallon (47 days)
End December 22, 2012
KS survey January 9, 2013
PM sent February 7, 2013

Zombicide 2 (37 days)
End March 31, 2013
KS survey April 23, 2013
PM sent May 7, 2013

Wrath of Kings (51 days)
End September 15, 2013
KS survey October 3, 2013
PM sent November 5, 2013

Arcadia Quest (43 days)
End March 16, 2014
KS survey March 24, 2014
PM sent April 28, 2014

Xenoshyft (54 days)
End June 18, 2014
KS survey June 27, 2014
PM sent August 11, 2014

Zombicide 3 (46 days)
End July 27, 2014
KS survey August 4, 2014
PM sent September 11, 2014 *updated*

Average from what I've backed: 45 days from KS end to PM sent

**edited to add Z3 PM date and # days info**
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Zach "Green Knight" Gable
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wavsite wrote:

Zombicide 3
End July 27, 2014
KS survey August 4, 2014
PM sent [not yet]


Zombicide 3
End July 27, 2014
KS survey August 4, 2014
PM sent September 11th, 2014 (may be EB only)
 
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Scott Hill
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greenknight08 wrote:
wavsite wrote:

Zombicide 3
End July 27, 2014
KS survey August 4, 2014
PM sent [not yet]


Zombicide 3
End July 27, 2014
KS survey August 4, 2014
PM sent September 11th, 2014 (may be EB only)

I was an EB and I've not had the PM email yet.

 
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Scott Hill
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Scorpion0x17 wrote:
greenknight08 wrote:
wavsite wrote:

Zombicide 3
End July 27, 2014
KS survey August 4, 2014
PM sent [not yet]


Zombicide 3
End July 27, 2014
KS survey August 4, 2014
PM sent September 11th, 2014 (may be EB only)

I was an EB and I've not had the PM email yet.


Checked the CKPM and it is open, though.



However, I can't see any sign of my S2 backer credit!

 
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Joshua Leslie
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Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Scorpion0x17 wrote:
greenknight08 wrote:
wavsite wrote:

Zombicide 3
End July 27, 2014
KS survey August 4, 2014
PM sent [not yet]


Zombicide 3
End July 27, 2014
KS survey August 4, 2014
PM sent September 11th, 2014 (may be EB only)

I was an EB and I've not had the PM email yet.


Checked the CKPM and it is open, though.



However, I can't see any sign of my S2 backer credit!



It shows up in the summary once you've selected everything that you want. At least, it should.
 
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Scott Hill
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Coyotenomad wrote:
Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Scorpion0x17 wrote:
greenknight08 wrote:
wavsite wrote:

Zombicide 3
End July 27, 2014
KS survey August 4, 2014
PM sent [not yet]


Zombicide 3
End July 27, 2014
KS survey August 4, 2014
PM sent September 11th, 2014 (may be EB only)

I was an EB and I've not had the PM email yet.


Checked the CKPM and it is open, though.



However, I can't see any sign of my S2 backer credit!



It shows up in the summary once you've selected everything that you want. At least, it should.

Ah, sweet.

Hadn't got as far as doing that as I need to figure out what additional extras to buy...
 
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José Cepero
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Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Coyotenomad wrote:
Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Scorpion0x17 wrote:
greenknight08 wrote:
wavsite wrote:

Zombicide 3
End July 27, 2014
KS survey August 4, 2014
PM sent [not yet]


Zombicide 3
End July 27, 2014
KS survey August 4, 2014
PM sent September 11th, 2014 (may be EB only)

I was an EB and I've not had the PM email yet.


Checked the CKPM and it is open, though.



However, I can't see any sign of my S2 backer credit!



It shows up in the summary once you've selected everything that you want. At least, it should.

Ah, sweet.

Hadn't got as far as doing that as I need to figure out what additional extras to buy...


maybe, just everything?
The only items I am not very keen on are the 2 artist boxes which dont really "match" the Zombicide world and the plastic counters. I have tons of skill and noise markers so enough spare ones for even 100 years
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Joshua Leslie
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cepero wrote:

maybe, just everything?
The only items I am not very keen on are the 2 artist boxes which dont really "match" the Zombicide world and the plastic counters. I have tons of skill and noise markers so enough spare ones for even 100 years


Which is the second guest artist pack that you don't think matches the Zombicide World? Clearly the art for the John Kovalic pack is completely different (to the point of incompatibility for me) than the rest of the stuff. But none of the other packs seem much more removed than any of the other guest artist packs.
 
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Rick S
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Coyotenomad wrote:
cepero wrote:

maybe, just everything?
The only items I am not very keen on are the 2 artist boxes which dont really "match" the Zombicide world and the plastic counters. I have tons of skill and noise markers so enough spare ones for even 100 years


Which is the second guest artist pack that you don't think matches the Zombicide World? Clearly the art for the John Kovalic pack is completely different (to the point of incompatibility for me) than the rest of the stuff. But none of the other packs seem much more removed than any of the other guest artist packs.



Ironically, he is probably referring to the Edouard(the guy who does the zombicide art)Guiton guest box.

 
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José Cepero
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bigblock75 wrote:
Coyotenomad wrote:
cepero wrote:

maybe, just everything?
The only items I am not very keen on are the 2 artist boxes which dont really "match" the Zombicide world and the plastic counters. I have tons of skill and noise markers so enough spare ones for even 100 years


Which is the second guest artist pack that you don't think matches the Zombicide World? Clearly the art for the John Kovalic pack is completely different (to the point of incompatibility for me) than the rest of the stuff. But none of the other packs seem much more removed than any of the other guest artist packs.



Ironically, he is probably referring to the Edouard(the guy who does the zombicide art)Guiton guest box.



yes indeed, you are right! I don't have a clear view on how those survivors will finally look like, because art clearly isnt always the same as the final miniature.... but its more what they are wearing/carrying etc... I like the zombie sandwichman way more
 
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Greg S
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Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Coyotenomad wrote:
Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Scorpion0x17 wrote:
greenknight08 wrote:
wavsite wrote:

Zombicide 3
End July 27, 2014
KS survey August 4, 2014
PM sent [not yet]


Zombicide 3
End July 27, 2014
KS survey August 4, 2014
PM sent September 11th, 2014 (may be EB only)

I was an EB and I've not had the PM email yet.


Checked the CKPM and it is open, though.



However, I can't see any sign of my S2 backer credit!



It shows up in the summary once you've selected everything that you want. At least, it should.

Ah, sweet.

Hadn't got as far as doing that as I need to figure out what additional extras to buy...


I was a S2 backer, yet I don't see any type of "credit" on my completed pledge invoice. What type of credit should I be getting?
 
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Tiff Reynolds
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essayons7 wrote:
I was a S2 backer, yet I don't see any type of "credit" on my completed pledge invoice. What type of credit should I be getting?


Once you at least enter and save your add-ons and shipping address (with your country and state), you should see the total at the bottom update with your shipping cost. The credit will be there, if you have one. Mine looks like this at the moment:

Sub-total: $355.00
Shipping cost: $14.87
Discount: $10.00
Pledge Amount: $350.00
Total: $9.87

All my add-ons are small, and everything will fit in one large shipping box, plus I'm East Coast USA (near CMON), so my shipping is pretty low. It doubles if I add another Patient 0, for example.
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Joshua Leslie
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cepero wrote:
bigblock75 wrote:
Coyotenomad wrote:
cepero wrote:

maybe, just everything?
The only items I am not very keen on are the 2 artist boxes which dont really "match" the Zombicide world and the plastic counters. I have tons of skill and noise markers so enough spare ones for even 100 years


Which is the second guest artist pack that you don't think matches the Zombicide World? Clearly the art for the John Kovalic pack is completely different (to the point of incompatibility for me) than the rest of the stuff. But none of the other packs seem much more removed than any of the other guest artist packs.



Ironically, he is probably referring to the Edouard(the guy who does the zombicide art)Guiton guest box.



yes indeed, you are right! I don't have a clear view on how those survivors will finally look like, because art clearly isnt always the same as the final miniature.... but its more what they are wearing/carrying etc... I like the zombie sandwichman way more

I personally don't find Doud or Tomiko any more out there than Uncle Honk, Cardboard Tube Samurai or the Wrath of King Cosplay figures. And honestly, considering that the game takes place months after the Zombie Apocalypse, the number of characters wearing a full suit and ties, ball gowns or other formal wear always seemed more incongruous to me than some of the other wacky costumes. I'm happy as long as the characters all share the same basic scale and proportions, which is why the super deformed style of the John Kovalic characters likely won't find their way onto my board at all. Though, I did want a surivor named matt, so if I really like their stats, I might end up finding proxies for all of them other than the muskrat in the tank. Hassle Free has some promising leaders.
 
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Coyotenomad wrote:
I'm happy as long as the characters all share the same basic scale and proportions, which is why the super deformed style of the John Kovalic characters likely won't find their way onto my board at all. Though, I did want a surivor named matt, so if I really like their stats, I might end up finding proxies for all of them other than the muskrat in the tank. Hassle Free has some promising leaders.


Have we had any teasers/renders for the Kovalic minis yet? I'm tempted but they're such a different art style I'd like to see how well they're done first. I probably wouldn't use them in this game, though (even though I happily use CTS - at least he looks like a real human in a costume).
 
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