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Dungeons & Dragons: Castle Ravenloft Board Game» Forums » Variants

Subject: House Rule: Saving throw. rss

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Rhys Corlett
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Okay, so (one of) the prime issue(s) with the D&DAS is unavoidable damage which tends to turn the game into a war of attrition rather than an adventure. I’m wondering about a house rule to introduce a saving throw, which would add a feeling of control. The ‘beta’ version of this roll is:

Whenever an attack or event would deal guaranteed, unavoidable damage (including attacks that are, “X damage on hit, Y Damage on miss”) you can attempt to ‘save’. To do so, roll a D20 – if the result is LOWER than your armour score, your armour has deflected the blow.

Would this be better with a set roll (e.g. 10+, 15+ or somesuch)?
 
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Alan Stewart
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AC tends to be high so saving at < AC means you'll not get hit nearly as much. 10+ tends to be a sort of "standard" saving throw, so you might want to try that. The game *IS* a war of attrition. It's not EASY being a hero! If you want more adventure then get rid of those danged Encounter cards. Those are where most of your trouble is gonna come from anyways.

That being said, play the game however you want. You paid for it (I hope?) so make it fun with whatever rules you want. If "winning" is more important, and makes it feel more like a D&D session than it really is, then by all means, get rid of some of those annoying auto-hits.

Doo-dee-doo-doo-dee-do-SQUISH!

"Hmmm, looks like we just lost the game. Bummer."
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Frank Clarke
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I like the idea of having some semblance of control of my hero's fate, so howsabout a reroll from encounter attacks if you are on a bonepile square (physical cover), or on a skull floor square (magical cover). If you are within 2 squares of a skull on a wall you get attacked twice by encounters.
This allows you to make cunning use of terrain.
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Rhys Corlett
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EverywhereGames wrote:
If you want more adventure then get rid of those danged Encounter cards. Those are where most of your trouble is gonna come from anyways.

We often move the non-item treasures to the encounter deck to balance it, or just remove encounters triggered by not exploring. But you still get a bunch of unavoidable damage from the encounters you have left and there is still stuff from creatures.
For example, the Orc Archers are simple creatures but they do constant damage and they do so before any hero can react(Two damage and one damage if they miss).

I'm figuring a 'save' would address both issues and allow us to dial the encounters back up.

EverywhereGames wrote:
AC tends to be high so saving at < AC means you'll not get hit nearly as much. 10+ tends to be a sort of "standard" saving throw, so you might want to try that.

True - good point. Plus my rule has a low result as 'good' (a no-no in 3E and 4E, I believe).
 
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Arto Hietanen
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Tel Prydain wrote:

True - good point. Plus my rule has a low result as 'good' (a no-no in 3E and 4E, I believe).


One idea could be to throw your AC or higher as a save. This would give the lower HP rogues and wizards a bit more survivability versus encounters. Rogues should be good at saves anyway and maybe the wizard has snatched the best cloak of resistance for his use. When using this method you should only use the 1st level base AC as the save DC as it makes no sense that leveling up or gaining protective magic items worsens your saves. Also the chance of success on a single save may be too low for your purposes (typically 20-35 % depending on AC), but over the game those add up.
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Seth Owen
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Bartheus wrote:
Tel Prydain wrote:

True - good point. Plus my rule has a low result as 'good' (a no-no in 3E and 4E, I believe).


One idea could be to throw your AC or higher as a save. This would give the lower HP rogues and wizards a bit more survivability versus encounters. Rogues should be good at saves anyway and maybe the wizard has snatched the best cloak of resistance for his use. When using this method you should only use the 1st level base AC as the save DC as it makes no sense that leveling up or gaining protective magic items worsens your saves. Also the chance of success on a single save may be too low for your purposes (typically 20-35 % depending on AC), but over the game those add up.


I think 20% to 35% would be good enough to make a big difference over the course of a game. That would generally mean 1-2 more damage opportunities before being KO's. Most of the the time games seem to come down to 1-3 HP difference between success and failure so I don't think you want a good chance to save. It may make the game too easy.

 
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Rhys Corlett
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Good call, Sir Bartheus - I think I'll try that out.

It should make it too easy, and even if it does I'd rather keep the save and drop the healing surges totally.
 
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Orlando Neto
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I just removed the pure damage encounters and left only ones that have some extra suff like Imobilized, or poisoned and so and on.

An encounter that say *bum* +8 and 3 damage for no reason seems silly for me.

If you still wanna use them, try this: roll the encounter +x as usual but instead CA check, roll a d20 plus your speed as modifier. Looks good for me and makes sense(a little bit )

encounter x +8 (1d20+8 = 15)
VS
hero roll plus speed (1d20+5 = 16)

Hero escaped with some acrobatics cool

If you roll a natural 20 you ignore the "1 dmg if miss" angry
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Rhys Corlett
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Using speed is a perfect fit - any it's a tiny different for those with slightly less/more speed.
 
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lorien4 lorien4
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topera wrote:
I just removed the pure damage encounters and left only ones that have some extra suff like Imobilized, or poisoned and so and on.

An encounter that say *bum* +8 and 3 damage for no reason seems silly for me.

If you still wanna use them, try this: roll the encounter +x as usual but instead CA check, roll a d20 plus your speed as modifier. Looks good for me and makes sense(a little bit )

encounter x +8 (1d20+8 = 15)
VS
hero roll plus speed (1d20+5 = 16)

Hero escaped with some acrobatics cool

If you roll a natural 20 you ignore the "1 dmg if miss" angry


I think that the games will be very boring this way, because you will be winning all the time. The encounters are essential part of the series, because they force you to explore. Without them the game tends to be more like Heroquest: fight, fight and fight. They add some theme too.

Of course everyone plays his games as he sees fit.
 
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Rhys Corlett
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I agree with you in principle. You don’t want the game to be too easy, or the whole thing becomes a fairly bland experience – but I’d rather drop the Healing Surges and instead have some feeling of control over the traps that are constantly picking at you. We already play with monster tokens, treasure tokens and Dungeon Command monsters – all of which provide (arguably a bit much) extra challenge, so easing up on the auto-damage shouldn’t hurt balance a massive deal (in fact the monsters in Dungeon Command doing auto-damage is one of the reasons I want some sort of saving throw).

I also agree that you need the encounters. I like a game to be ‘fighty’ (as I noted above, we use tokens and the harder monsters), but the combat in these titles aren’t enough to carry the game on its own, and the excitement of snipers from the shadows lava walls and other events are entertaining in their own right.
I don’t want to get rid of the count appearing out of the shadows to attack, I just want to eliminate areas of the game that just say, “You took X damage, just because”. And honestly, monsters that are drawn, summoned, get attack first and do unavoidable damage are MORE of a problem than the encounters are. If it seems to get too easy I just start using this rule ONLY for unavoidable monster damage.
 
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Orlando Neto
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lorien4 wrote:
topera wrote:
I just removed the pure damage encounters and left only ones that have some extra suff like Imobilized, or poisoned and so and on.

An encounter that say *bum* +8 and 3 damage for no reason seems silly for me.

If you still wanna use them, try this: roll the encounter +x as usual but instead CA check, roll a d20 plus your speed as modifier. Looks good for me and makes sense(a little bit )

encounter x +8 (1d20+8 = 15)
VS
hero roll plus speed (1d20+5 = 16)

Hero escaped with some acrobatics cool

If you roll a natural 20 you ignore the "1 dmg if miss" angry


I think that the games will be very boring this way, because you will be winning all the time. The encounters are essential part of the series, because they force you to explore. Without them the game tends to be more like Heroquest: fight, fight and fight. They add some theme too.

Of course everyone plays his games as he sees fit.


The average hero speed is less than the bonuses of encounters. Still not so easy to escapezombie
 
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Rhys Corlett
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I'm thinking something a bit more static - like D20 + speed vs DC:15.
As fun as the other option sounds, simplicity is at the heart of the game and I don't want to throw that under the bus.
 
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