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Carlos Soto Power
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Hi

Sorry if this has been previously asked. I'm just starting with this expansion. I've just played the first scenario and now I have a lot of doubts about sacks:

1. If a hero or ally is sacked during the quest phase (the effect of a treachery makes this possible), does that character's willpower still count towards the current quest phase?

2. What exactly means "the sacked character cannot perform any actions or responses". E.g. If Dain Ironfoot is sacked, does his ability still boost other dwarf characters or not? What about Thorin's ability to get an extra resource if you control at least 5 dwarves? Does it works even if Thorin is sacked or not?

3. What about attachments? E.g. If a sacked hero is Steward of Gondor, can the player exhaust it to add 2 resources to the resource pool of the attached character? Or, for example, could a player exhaust King Under the Mountain if it is attached to a sacked character? In other words, are the attachments part of the character, and thus, sacked with him, or should be considered as separate things?

I'm SO confused, please H-E-L-P! soblue

 
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Rob Rob
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A sacked character effectively ceases to exist. They are trapped inside a dark sack along with their attachments. Their questing in this situation is zero. They can neither attack nor defend. Their attachments don't take effect. Nothing until they are freed.
 
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Carlos Soto Power
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Robrob wrote:
A sacked character effectively ceases to exist.

Don't even produce resources at the beginning of the round?
Robrob wrote:
Their questing in this situation is zero.
Yeah, I get it, but the character was previously assigned to the quest, so, does his/her willpower still count for the current quest phase or not?
Robrob wrote:
Their attachments don't take effect.
This makes sense... partially
 
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Josh Walton
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Hello! The Sacked! cards have been a source of confusion to many, I'll do my best to help!

1. Since the sack says a character can't commit to a quest, if they are already committed they're willpower will still count for the current questing phase.

2. Heroes like Dain and Thorin would still have their abilities "turned on" because they are passive effects and don't require triggering. But someone like Bifur for example that has a "do this thing and then this other thing will happen" type of effect can't be used.

3. Steward of Gondor and the like should still work as you are triggering the attachment's effect, not an effect on the hero.

Basically you can't do anything with the character that requires it to exhaust or perform an action or reaction to take effect.

Hope that helps!
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Ed T
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You're actually overthinking this IMO. The sack card is pretty clear about how it affects the character - there's nothing in there about preventing a hero from gathering resources, removing it from a quest it has already committed to, or being the target of card effects.
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David Williams
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Robrob wrote:
A sacked character effectively ceases to exist. They are trapped inside a dark sack along with their attachments. Their questing in this situation is zero. They can neither attack nor defend. Their attachments don't take effect. Nothing until they are freed.


I think you're reading something into it that is not stated. What you say seems to make some sense intuitively, but there are intuitive arguments to the contrary also, so we must look at the actual rules and text.

Personally, I don't see how it's justified by the rules, or text on the relevant cards.

A sample Sack card:



It states the character cannot ready, attack, defend, commit or trigger. It doesn't state they are removed from the quest, that they do not gain or spend resources, nor that their attachments cannot be used, nor that their passive effects are no longer in effect.

The wording is identical to the Sacked! card:



To which the FAQ states:

Quote:
Q: If a Sacked! (SoM 48) card is placed on a hero while that hero is questing is that hero removed from the quest?

A: No. Sacked! specifies only that the hero cannot commit to the quest, and the hero is already committed. However, the hero cannot commit to quests on future rounds while Sacked! is attached.


This explicitly answers 1, and implicitly answers 2 and 3 because it's very much the 'what it states and nothing more' response we would expect.

In any case it directly contradicts the proposition "A sacked character effectively ceases to exist." so that's now off the table.

So my answers would be:

1. Yes their willpower still counts. If it didn't, it would say on the sack that they are removed from the quest.

2. They cannot use response, forced or action abilities on their hero card. Passive abilities d not trigger, so remain in effect. So Dain's ability would still work, assuming he was sacked whilst 'ready', as would Thorin's ability. They still collect resources and can still spend them. Sack cards don't say they can't, therefore they can.

3. Yes, the sack cards state only that the hero (i.e. hero card) cannot trigger effects. They don't state that their attachments (which are different cards, and the sacked card doesn't mention them) cannot trigger effects. Also it is only the hero who does not ready - the attachments continue to ready despite being attached to a sacked character.

Someone asked much the same questions here: http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/857461/sacked

I think the person answering was a play tester, or has some other position of unofficial authority on the matter. The tone and confidence of response certainly suggests that's the case. But I could be wrong.
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Chad
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Orion3T wrote:

The wording is identical to the Sacked! card:


Actually, note that the "Sacked!" card you reference from the Conflict at the Carrock scenario IS different. The CoaC "Sacked!" card does not prevent you from readying. It also does not allow you to collect resources. As you can see in the image above, however, the Hobbit sack cards DO prevent you from readying, but still allow you to collect resources.
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chadgar24
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David is right.

It states the character cannot ready, attack, defend, commit or trigger.

so just look at those things and it is not so confusing....can't ready, can't attack, can't defend, can't commit to a quest, and can't trigger. I suppose the 'trigger' is the one that confuses people, here is the definition.
(1.36) Triggered abilities vs. Passive abilities
Triggered abilities are abilities on cards that have a
bold trigger word such as Action or Response. These
abilities are only applied when they are triggered.
Passive abilities are abilities on cards that have an
ongoing effect without a bold trigger word. Because
passive abilities don’t have a trigger they are always
active and cannot be “triggered”.

so that hopefully clears that up for you
 
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Carlos Soto Power
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Capt_WaRPed wrote:
Orion3T wrote:

The wording is identical to the Sacked! card:


Actually, note that the "Sacked!" card you reference from the Conflict at the Carrock scenario IS different.

Sadly, this is true.
I say "sadly" 'cause it would be so easier if cards with the same keyword work the same way!
 
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David Williams
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Capt_WaRPed wrote:
Orion3T wrote:

The wording is identical to the Sacked! card:


Actually, note that the "Sacked!" card you reference from the Conflict at the Carrock scenario IS different. The CoaC "Sacked!" card does not prevent you from readying. It also does not allow you to collect resources. As you can see in the image above, however, the Hobbit sack cards DO prevent you from readying, but still allow you to collect resources.


OK fair point and thanks for correcting me - I misspoke. I was referring to the reference to committing to the quest, that part is phrased the same. I did not spot the 'no resources' bit either, as I haven't actually played this scenario so was going by the small image in CGDB.

I think my conclusions are still correct though, the response still seems applicable so far as questing is concerned.
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James Ludlow
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FinrondFelagund wrote:
Capt_WaRPed wrote:
Orion3T wrote:

The wording is identical to the Sacked! card:


Actually, note that the "Sacked!" card you reference from the Conflict at the Carrock scenario IS different.

Sadly, this is true.
I say "sadly" 'cause it would be so easier if cards with the same keyword work the same way!


Sack is a trait, not a keyword.

I agree that some consistency around "what happens when you're placed inside a bag" would cut down on rules confusion. On the other hand, the cards are clearly written and are quite far apart from each other in the overall arc of the game.
 
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