Recommend
6 
 Thumb up
 Hide
12 Posts

Cruel Necessity» Forums » Rules

Subject: Clubman revolt again rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Ted Duby
United States
Honolulu
Hawaii
flag msg tools
badge
If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. (Romans 10:9)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If an Army is in the same space as a clubman revolt, do I have to push back the Army first before I can attack the clubman revolt?

Similary, if an Army is in the same space as an uprising/mutiny, do I have to push back the Army first before I can attack the uprising/mutiny?

I ask this because I am slightly confused about the eligibility rule in sections 8.4 and 8.5. It says the revolt markers work similarly to besieging a fortress, and to besiege a fortress, you must push the army back first if it is not disordered.

Thanks.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian S.
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
flag msg tools
01010011 01001000 01000001 01001100 01001100 00100000 01010111 01000101 00100000 01010000 01001100 01000001 01011001 00100000 01000001 00100000 01000111 01000001 01001101 01000101 00111111
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
MajorOracle wrote:
If an Army is in the same space as a clubman revolt, do I have to push back the Army first before I can attack the clubman revolt?

Similary, if an Army is in the same space as an uprising/mutiny, do I have to push back the Army first before I can attack the uprising/mutiny?

I ask this because I am slightly confused about the eligibility rule in sections 8.4 and 8.5. It says the revolt markers work similarly to besieging a fortress, and to besiege a fortress, you must push the army back first if it is not disordered.

Thanks.
If the mutiny/uprising/revolt are in the same space as either the North or West army, they are eligible to be attacked. But the armies are not eligible to be attacked until the mutiny/uprising/revolt is defeated. All enemy units (mutiny/uprising/revolt or armies) must be behind a fortress for the fortress to be eligible for siege or fortification. Similar eligibility rules, but not the same.
5 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Welch
United States
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks for the question Ted and thanks to Brian for the speedy and correct answers.

I always like it when the Clubmen appear behind Enemy Armies because that means for at least one turn where they are instructed to Advance, they will have to deal with the Clubmen instead...one of the rare times I want to roll a one :-)
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ted Duby
United States
Honolulu
Hawaii
flag msg tools
badge
If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. (Romans 10:9)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks gentlemen!

I think that is my last rules question (famous last words)...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt Deuber
United States
Baldwin
Maryland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
professorwelch wrote:
Thanks for the question Ted and thanks to Brian for the speedy and correct answers.

I always like it when the Clubmen appear behind Enemy Armies because that means for at least one turn where they are instructed to Advance, they will have to deal with the Clubmen instead...one of the rare times I want to roll a one :-)


John, sometimes my Monarchy is at it's lowest. So the clubmen become an even tougher problem for the Royalists devil
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Welch
United States
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I haven't had that happen to me yet but I like it :-)
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Ramsey
United States
Alexandria
Virginia
flag msg tools
professorwelch wrote:
Thanks for the question Ted and thanks to Brian for the speedy and correct answers.

I always like it when the Clubmen appear behind Enemy Armies because that means for at least one turn where they are instructed to Advance, they will have to deal with the Clubmen instead...one of the rare times I want to roll a one :-)


Sorry, but I don't agree with Brian's answer regarding an Army and revolt marker in the same space - even though the designer does. Only a revolt marker that is "eligible" for Beseiging affects your ability to campaign against an army in that same Region. Per section 8.5, revolt markers are treated "similar to" fortresses for eligibility for beseiging. Section 8.4 states than an Army must be in a higher numbered area before a fortress is eligible, therefore there is no prohibition against campaigning against the Army in question because the revolt marker is not eligible. That would only be the case if the Army was disordered.

According to my interpretation you must campaign againt the Army - once it is one space higher than the revolt marker, the revolt marker is "eligible" for beseiging and you cannot campaign against the Army further. You must then beseige the revolt before you can do anything else in that Region.

If this is not the case (per the designer), then I think this particular rules wrinkle is confusing because section 8.5 states the revolt markers (of whatever specific type) are shaped like fortresses because the rules for beseiging are "similar". I have been working under the assumption that the difference was a lack of "clicks" and nothing else. As a minimum this should be on the player aid.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Welch
United States
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hello Steve and thanks for posting. I do agree with your interpretation of the rule that an Enemy Army I the same space must be dealt with first before attempting to eliminate a Clubmen Revolt.

I wouldn't do so in most cases as it would prevent the Enemy Army from Advancing for at least one turn against a Clubmen Revolt (the other Revolt markers wouldn't apply of course).

Hope you're enjoying the game!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ted Duby
United States
Honolulu
Hawaii
flag msg tools
badge
If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. (Romans 10:9)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
OK, so now I am confused again, as we appear to have 2 different answers.

I would like a "Yes/No" answer from John Welch (only) to my original 2 questions:

1) If an Army is in the same space as a clubman revolt, do I have to push back the Army first before I can attack the clubman revolt?


2) Similary, if an Army is in the same space as an uprising/mutiny, do I have to push back the Army first before I can attack the uprising/mutiny?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian S.
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
flag msg tools
01010011 01001000 01000001 01001100 01001100 00100000 01010111 01000101 00100000 01010000 01001100 01000001 01011001 00100000 01000001 00100000 01000111 01000001 01001101 01000101 00111111
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Rule 8.5 states that Revolts are eligible when "not behind enemy lines." It also add that once a Revolt is eligible you can no longer campaign, besiege, or fortify in that region.

My interpretation is that if a revolt is in the same space as the region's army, the revolt is eligible and thus no campaigning against the army is allowed.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Ramsey
United States
Alexandria
Virginia
flag msg tools
Vrooman wrote:
Rule 8.5 states that Revolts are eligible when "not behind enemy lines." It also add that once a Revolt is eligible you can no longer campaign, besiege, or fortify in that region.

My interpretation is that if a revolt is in the same space as the region's army, the revolt is eligible and thus no campaigning against the army is allowed.


John,

To clarify, I was providing my interpretation of what the rules allow in regards to any kind of Revolt, not necessarily what I would do for a Clubmen revolt specifically (see comment to Ted below). I have the game on my table right now and am enjoying my fifth playthrough. I'm starting the second civil war with a net victory point count of 0.

Brian,

Yes, section 8.5 does say "behind enemy lines" but as I stated in my response is also states that revolts are treated similarly to fortresses. I think it thematically makes sense that you would have to deal with the Army before the revolt because the Army isn't going to let you enter the area to squash the revolt without engaging you. I guess we just need John to tell us which statement has precedence.

Ted,

The term "Revolt" in the rules covers Clubmen revolts, uprisings, and mutinies so I would think the answer to both your questions is the same.

From a strategy perspective, why would you want to spend zeal to squash a Clubmen revolt? It's basically like a free fortress click that prevents the Army in that region from moving forward. Let the Royalists burn an Army activation to deal with the Clubmen and save your zeal points.

The only reason I would defeat a Clubmen revolt myself is the case where an Army is "in front of" a Clubmen revolt but "behind" one of my fortresses that was on the verge of being overrun. I might consider defeating the Clubmen revolt in order to fortify my fortress before the Army got there to beseige it.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Welch
United States
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I certainly don't want to muddle things but here goes...part of the issue is scale i.e. each Space represents a very large geographic area so ordering where Enemy Armies go versus where the Clubmen are is problematic at best. This could mean that an Enemy Army might allow the Parliamentary forces to attack a town of Clubmen and save them the trouble but wouldn't allow Parliamentary forces to march through territory they controlled to do so.

Given all the decisions made in the game, I don't want this attack order question to cause too much trouble particularly as it would generally apply to attempting to 'save' a Parliamentary controlled Fortress City. Also given that it is a solitaire game, I suspect that most have played the rule based on their interpretation. That said, rules should be rules.

I just want players to have challenging fun with the system and since Ted asked let's go with this: "1. Yes and 2. Yes". That said, Brian you can play the rule as you interpret it as well :-)

Thanks for the posts...nice to see the game still getting some play a year after its release.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.