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John Wrot!
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So I see kickstarter relaunches all the time. I'm very happy for those people. 1) They're seriously pursuing what they believe in and probably should get our support. 2) They're more likely to hit their goal this time. 3) We relaunched, and it was the community rallying that supported us; so there's a nostalgia there for me.

But My question to You is: When see things like...
"XYZ Relaunch"
"XYZ 2.0"
"XYZ Returns"
...as the Project title, do you take a look and consider supporting "Oh, maybe they really improved stuff, let me see..."
or do you blow it off? "If it failed once, it must have failed for a reason, I'm not looking again."

Do you think there's an advantage to looking like a fresh game, by title, and leaving the relaunch detail for the project page or FAQs?

Thoughts?
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Michael Dillenbeck
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My very first experience with Kickstarter was a game called Westerly. It failed. Then they announced a relaunch - but this relaunch included a reworking of the art and a much longer turn-around time for delivery. I backed out. It failed again. They tried a third time. It failed again.

I backed out because the relaunch was a signal that their first launch had unrealistic expectations for delivering their product.

Recently I tried to back Braiiiins! at the pnp level. It failed. The developers came back with the Fire Squad Print and Play pack with a $5 goal (meaning they wanted only one person to buy it to make the pnp files happen). I early bird backed all 3 games instead, so they got more money out of me because they showed they wanted their game to happen.

So do I back 2.0? It depends. Why did it fail and what is the relaunch like? Of course, my experience with physical games and the fact that it detracts a lot of money from my FLGS (there is no distributor or game store making money, but I only realize $5 or maybe $10 savings by buying direct? That seems... wrong. Basically, I am buying a game for me and one to sell to a distributor - or at least that is how it feels).
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John Wrot!
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Verbosity wrote:
My very first experience with Kickstarter was a game called Westerly. It failed. Then they announced a relaunch - but this relaunch included a reworking of the art and a much longer turn-around time for delivery. I backed out. It failed again. They tried a third time. It failed again.


Yeah, then there's Westerly. I watched the whole experience from afar myself. And they're not the only ones to run 3 campaigns in an attempt to succeed.

Well the problem is that some relaunches don't take any of the advice, change just 1 or 2 small things, and relaunch expecting things to go better on round two.

It's the ones that do TRY that get my attention.

The question stands though.
Does the wording of the title affect you to Look, or Brush off?
 
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Re: Kickstarter Relaunch Titles. Do they get your attention, or do you brush them off?

Depends on the reason for the re-launch.

If the first go-round was canceled or failed due to poor planning, then there's probably a good reason to let it go. Unrealistic stretch goals (if there are any) throw up red flags to me. I mean, I've heard the phrase "If you're going to go after Moby Dick, take along the tartar sauce", but adding 1-2 pieces of cardboard for every $10,000 bump screams "We're not as concerned about this game as we are about making enough money to fund our next project."

When a project is canceled because of unrealistic stretch goals (not unrealistic primary funding planning - that's another issue), I'm less likely to back again.
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Nick Hayes
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It always concerns me when a project creator relaunches the same game (+/- minor tweaks) with a drastically lowered funding goal.

To me this means that the first time around they did their research and calculated just how expensive it would be to get their project off the ground. Then for whatever reason they didn't raise enough money, so they relaunch the same project with a much lower funding goal. So what happens if they reach that goal? They won't be able to deliver because they didn't raise the actual amount of money they determined was required to produce the product. It sends off warning signals to me.
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John Wrot!
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Black Canyon wrote:
It always concerns me when a project creator relaunches the same game (+/- minor tweaks) with a drastically lowered funding goal.
It sends off warning signals to me.


That can certainly be true. The good news is, that usually a Kickstarter goes for gold on round 1, or "brings the tartar sauce" as they say. ; )
But on round two they sober up, and produce it in a more reasonable way; perhaps better shipping methods, perhaps "standard" quality components instead of the gold-plated ones, and perhaps at a lower order quantity, and that can bring the price down the most.
ie: A CCG through Panda = min 1500 copies. A CCG through TCG = 5 copies. It's a compromise, but the goal is to get the game out there.

What do you guys think about when there's a relaunch and the site looks better, the goal is more realistic, but price went up $5 to compensate? (or whatever margin is appropriate)?
Are you willing to put in the extra $5 to help it happen, or would you rather see $5 less with a HIGHER total goal? Does it make a difference?

John
 
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Liam
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Moved from General Gaming to Kickstarter.
 
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Ron A
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It depends on the KS campaign.

I supported one campaign on the relaunch that I DIDN'T support the 1st time around. The creator took some things out of the reward and lowered the price by 25%, put in some different (and better) stretch goals, and I was in. It made its goal the 2nd time.

The creator actually did a retrospective of what went wrong the 1st time, and what changes he made to ensure success the 2nd time. Anatomy of a successful Kickstarter relaunch
 
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Jacq L
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I always always always check a creator's other projects. I'll compare the relaunched project to the original to see where the changes happened.

The timing between is also important. If there's less than two or three months between the cancellation of a project and it's relaunch, I'm not going to support them (because it shows they didn't take the cancellation seriously and dedicate a lot of time to do their homework).

Regarding the title... Hm, I want to say if the title doesn't grab me I don't look at the project anyways. But I'm a curious beast. If the title rays "RELAUNCH" or "2.0" on it, I'm probably more likely to check out the page, just two compare the old project to the new one.
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Brook Gentlestream
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KeeperoftheGate wrote:
So I see kickstarter relaunches all the time. I'm very happy for those people. 1) They're seriously pursuing what they believe in and probably should get our support. 2) They're more likely to hit their goal this time. 3) We relaunched, and it was the community rallying that supported us; so there's a nostalgia there for me.

But My question to You is: When see things like...
"XYZ Relaunch"
"XYZ 2.0"
"XYZ Returns"
...as the Project title, do you take a look and consider supporting "Oh, maybe they really improved stuff, let me see..."
or do you blow it off? "If it failed once, it must have failed for a reason, I'm not looking again."

Do you think there's an advantage to looking like a fresh game, by title, and leaving the relaunch detail for the project page or FAQs?

Thoughts?


Relaunches will always get my attention.
I've never backed one that I know of, but if I notice it on the list, I'll usually check it out.
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John Wrot!
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SBGrad wrote:
The creator actually did a retrospective of what went wrong the 1st time, and what changes he made to ensure success the 2nd time. Anatomy of a successful Kickstarter relaunch


That's a great resource. Thank! I'll link to it on our Advice Blog.
 
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John Wrot!
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lordrahvin wrote:
Relaunches will always get my attention.
I've never backed one that I know of, but if I notice it on the list, I'll usually check it out.


That's the neat thing I'm trying to figure out. What is it about relaunches that get our attention? I think it's Good Will ... but it also might be morbid curiosity! : P
 
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KeeperoftheGate wrote:
That's the neat thing I'm trying to figure out. What is it about relaunches that get our attention? I think it's Good Will ... but it also might be morbid curiosity! : P

Relaunching a failed or canceled project shows perseverance and that the designer/creator believes in the project. Which is a plus.
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John Wrot!
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JadedGamer wrote:
Relaunching a failed or canceled project shows perseverance and that the designer/creator believes in the project. Which is a plus.


Agreed. I like taking a look at them personally. I just wonder if having it in the title is a good bias to insert into the mind of the viewer right away. Or should it be discovered on the page?
 
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The Game Steward
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I definitely check out re-launched game projects. Heck, I've backed more than one re-launched campaign!

I am neutral about including it in the name, though, as I can imagine that it would turn off as many people as it would attract.
 
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KeeperoftheGate wrote:
Agreed. I like taking a look at them personally. I just wonder if having it in the title is a good bias to insert into the mind of the viewer right away. Or should it be discovered on the page?


For me, it gives me one more list of things to look for to justify not backing.

The flip side is, I'm more likely to visit the campaign page just to compare the two projects. Higher visibility, but more scrutiny.

Looking at my backer history, of 113 projects I've backed exactly 1 relaunch (of which I was a backer during the first campaign). I don't know that that's useful data, but there it is.
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Nick Hayes
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Only twice have I backed a project that was cancelled and relaunched. Each time I did not back the relaunch. The reason is that I there was enough time between the two campaigns for my desire for the game to temper. Kickstarter succeeds heavily on the impulse purchase. If you don't get in while the campaign is live, you might never get the game at all! So when a project fails or is canceled, and then relaunched, I usually have enough time to figure that I really didn't need the game after all.
 
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John Wrot!
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Black Canyon wrote:
Only twice have I backed a project that was cancelled and relaunched. Each time I did not back the relaunch. The reason is that I there was enough time between the two campaigns for my desire for the game to temper. Kickstarter succeeds heavily on the impulse purchase. If you don't get in while the campaign is live, you might never get the game at all! So when a project fails or is canceled, and then relaunched, I usually have enough time to figure that I really didn't need the game after all.


Interesting. That's a new one. It makes a good deal of sense. Time for the reality of "wallet" to set it.
 
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binary sunrise

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Well, here's the perspective from someone in the midst of a kickstarter relaunch.

I launched my pirate-themed card game The Pirate Deck back in April, and it did not get funded. I can point to a number of probable reasons. I took the next three months to work on addressing many of the issues, some of which were suggested by backers of the original campaign.

Funding Goal - Originally this was $14k. I think this was the main reason it failed.

1) Reduced the goal to $6k
2) Decided to absorb previous out-of-pocket costs
3) Reduced the manufacturing costs
4) Reduced the planned print run
5) Negotiated a reduction on some of the art costs
6) Added a new super-deluxe version of the game
7) Adjusted the costs of the various levels

Shipping

1) Found a much cheaper way to ship to non-US addresses (using a 3rd party shipper)

Marketing

1) Created a print-and-play version of the game for people to try out
2) Arranged for a new video review from Undead Viking
3) Paid for 4 more pieces of artwork from the artist
4) Created deluxe play-testing decks (with the new artwork, and a nice coin pouch) and mailed them out to new reviewers
5) Continued building a support network of potential new backers
6) Signed up for more/better ads and blog references

It's been a learning process. I did notice attrition from backers of the first campaign not coming to the second campaign (which I do recognize as rethinking impulse buys), but I also did not want to relaunch immediately without taking the time to figure out and correct the issues in the campaign. What I learned most, though, is that while you can design a great game, and get a great plan in place for production and fulfillment of rewards, so much of Kickstarter depends on also being great at marketing and finding your audience (and finding out what they want to see in your campaign)

And after all that, The Pirate Deck is 80% funded now, and will be able to reach my goal, and will be able to produce and deliver my game. For me, the relaunch was needed to pare down the scope of the factory order, find my audience, and bring them the price/shipping/product they desired.
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I'd definitely check out the relaunch if it was something that I had more than a passing interest in the first time around. There is a lot to learn from running even a failed KS campaign, and I don't expect everyone to get it right first time out. I'd have more trust in a relaunch of a failed campaign than in a first time campaign (assuming all other things are equal), because you know they've already uncovered and accounted for a bunch of pitfalls the new campaign might still be blindly heading towards.
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John Wrot!
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binarysunrise wrote:
Well, here's the perspective from someone in the midst of a kickstarter relaunch.

...

And after all that, The Pirate Deck is 80% funded now, and will be able to reach my goal, and will be able to produce and deliver my game. For me, the relaunch was needed to pare down the scope of the factory order, find my audience, and bring them the price/shipping/product they desired.


Thanks for sharing all that. How bout you though? Do YOU take extra or less time to look at relaunches you see. Be honest.
 
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John Wrot!
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delinear wrote:
I'd definitely check out the relaunch if it was something that I had more than a passing interest in the first time around. There is a lot to learn from running even a failed KS campaign, and I don't expect everyone to get it right first time out. I'd have more trust in a relaunch of a failed campaign than in a first time campaign (assuming all other things are equal), because you know they've already uncovered and accounted for a bunch of pitfalls the new campaign might still be blindly heading towards.


Hi delinear, thanks for commenting.
I think you last point is a great one.
 
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Black Canyon wrote:
Only twice have I backed a project that was cancelled and relaunched. Each time I did not back the relaunch. The reason is that I there was enough time between the two campaigns for my desire for the game to temper. Kickstarter succeeds heavily on the impulse purchase. If you don't get in while the campaign is live, you might never get the game at all! So when a project fails or is canceled, and then relaunched, I usually have enough time to figure that I really didn't need the game after all.


I don't want to derail the main conversation by going too far OT, but this is a very good point and subject to further expansion. I think many of us (myself included) see the shiny objects and lots of stretch goals (sometimes) and pledge for stuff we normally wouldn't.

I have 2 KS games on my trade pile and I'm very proud that I had the resolve to cancel pledges for 3 games before the campaign ended.
 
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John Wrot!
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SBGrad wrote:
Black Canyon wrote:
Only twice have I backed a project that was cancelled and relaunched. Each time I did not back the relaunch. The reason is that I there was enough time between the two campaigns for my desire for the game to temper. Kickstarter succeeds heavily on the impulse purchase. If you don't get in while the campaign is live, you might never get the game at all! So when a project fails or is canceled, and then relaunched, I usually have enough time to figure that I really didn't need the game after all.


I don't want to derail the main conversation by going too far OT, but this is a very good point and subject to further expansion. I think many of us (myself included) see the shiny objects and lots of stretch goals (sometimes) and pledge for stuff we normally wouldn't.

I have 2 KS games on my trade pile and I'm very proud that I had the resolve to cancel pledges for 3 games before the campaign ended.


It's valid that we ALL should regulate our spending effectively. Don't back if you can't; pull if you gotta; and buy if you can.

The whole world would have more "shiny" if we all spent less frivolously and in turn had more to share generously.
 
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binary sunrise

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KeeperoftheGate wrote:
binarysunrise wrote:
Well, here's the perspective from someone in the midst of a kickstarter relaunch.

...

And after all that, The Pirate Deck is 80% funded now, and will be able to reach my goal, and will be able to produce and deliver my game. For me, the relaunch was needed to pare down the scope of the factory order, find my audience, and bring them the price/shipping/product they desired.


Thanks for sharing all that. How bout you though? Do YOU take extra or less time to look at relaunches you see. Be honest.


Yes, actually I do. Part of it might because it shows up on my radar more frequently, but I find myself giving it another glance, or a better glance than I did before. Especially if I notice that it's close to funding, or has backer support. I might think "what'd I miss?" (which happens often with 1st-time KS projects as well - that I end up looking back again sometimes)

Examples - Dungeon Dice. I threw myself fully into the relaunch campaign. The creator redid all of his stretch goals, price point, etc. and turned out a great project. Westerly II & Westerly III - I gave these reboots far more attention the 2nd and 3rd time around. Each time I focused a bit more on them, asking "Am I *sure* this game isn't right for me?" (each time, the answer was the same, though, and I didn't back it)

Now granted, there might be more, but if I'm not looking for "RELAUNCH" in the title - I'm looking for a great game, that has backers, that will be funded, and looks to be a good fit for my family's needs. If that happens to be a relaunch, so be it.
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