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jeremy cobert
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A federal appeals court in Chicago reinstated Wisconsin's voter photo identification law on Friday.I guess it's like Obamacare, now that the courts have ruled on it the pro-voterfraud crowd will just accept it a law

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/12/wisconsin-voter-id_...
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Drew1365 wrote:
Every person who cheats steals away MY vote.

How many other peoples votes are stolen away by the suppression tactics of the GOP? Oh, but that doesn't concern you since you are only thinking about yourself. How simple.
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Josh
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I can tell you how this will play out. Old white ppl whk forget their ID are waved through. Minorities are turned backwith 'not enough' ID. Nof systemicly, justa few stupid zealots. Whole thing is thrown out in court, big waste of time and money.
 
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Xander Fulton
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Drew1365 wrote:
Shadrach wrote:
Old white ppl . . .


That's racist and ageist.


Are you arguing the statement? Or just in denial?

You know damn well white people, wearing the "right clothes" in the "right neighborhoods", will be waved through without the right ID...while certain minorities will not enjoy any such generosity.

The problem with these laws isn't necessarily the literal application of them, but that the effective application of them is demonstrably biased.
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XanderF wrote:


The problem with these laws isn't necessarily the literal application of them, but that the effective application of them is demonstrably biased.


Are there data that demonstrate the demonstrable bias in the application of the law? Or is it anecdotal and suspected?
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Damian
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Voting laws can actually worsen fraud when they suppress both legal and illegal votes. Voter impersonation fraud, which is the only type of fraud these laws can prevent, is virtually nonexistent (ten occasions since 2000) while other types of fraud like absentee ballot fraud run rampant in relative comparison. Voter ID laws disproportionately suppress lawful votes while doing literaly nothing to prevent fraud.
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Josh
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SpaceGhost wrote:
XanderF wrote:


The problem with these laws isn't necessarily the literal application of them, but that the effective application of them is demonstrably biased.


Are there data that demonstrate the demonstrable bias in the application of the law? Or is it anecdotal and suspected?


The bias was the entire point of the Jim Crow laws these things harken back to. It is on record as being very biased, that's why they were eventually dealt with.
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John O'Haver
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A t-shirt with your picture on it and a leather belt with your name engraved on it is no longer sufficient?

How about if your auto license plate number IS your street address?
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jeremy cobert
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jmilum wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
Every person who cheats steals away MY vote.

How many other peoples votes are stolen away by the suppression tactics of the GOP? Oh, but that doesn't concern you since you are only thinking about yourself. How simple.


oh yeah , How many other peoples votes are stolen away by the suppression tactics of the DNC? Oh, but that doesn't concern you since you are only thinking about yourself. How simple.

 
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J
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jeremycobert wrote:
jmilum wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
Every person who cheats steals away MY vote.

How many other peoples votes are stolen away by the suppression tactics of the GOP? Oh, but that doesn't concern you since you are only thinking about yourself. How simple.


oh yeah , How many other peoples votes are stolen away by the suppression tactics of the DNC? Oh, but that doesn't concern you since you are only thinking about yourself. How simple.


Where was I talking about my self?
 
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jeremy cobert
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Shadrach wrote:

The bias was the entire point of the Democrat Jim Crow laws these things harken back to. It is on record as being very biased, that's why they were eventually dealt with.


I agree that the Democrats Jim Crow laws did try to keep guns away from black citizens in an attempt to help their Democrat allies in the KKK who were getting shot at while attempting to assault armed black citizens. Perhaps it's time to remove the roadblocks to firearm ownership and end this racist Democrat policy once and for all.

oh wait, ID for gun is good while ID for vote is bad...... nevermind.
 
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Josh
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jeremycobert wrote:
Shadrach wrote:

The bias was the entire point of the Democrat Jim Crow laws these things harken back to. It is on record as being very biased, that's why they were eventually dealt with.


I agree that the Democrats Jim Crow laws did try to keep guns away from black citizens in an attempt to help their Democrat allies in the KKK who were getting shot at while attempting to assault armed black citizens. Perhaps it's time to remove the roadblocks to firearm ownership and end this racist Democrat policy once and for all.

oh wait, ID for gun is good while ID for vote is bad...... nevermind.


Let me hold up a store with my voting stub

Seriously jeremy, transparent redirect with misleading and repeatedly explained(to you, personally) intimations. 1 of 5 stars, would not reblog.
 
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Ken
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SpaceGhost wrote:
Are there data that demonstrate the demonstrable bias in the application of the law? Or is it anecdotal and suspected?


The data isn't particularly conclusive on either side of the equation from what these seem to say. But what is there tends to indicate that the laws are likely to suppress more votes than illegal votes that it prevents from being cast in the first place. Which would lead me to come down on the side of "do the least damage possible with policy" and avoid such laws.
 
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Dan Schaeffer
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Drew1365 wrote:
Actually, I should correct that. Just one cheater takes away my vote. Another cheater takes away your vote. A third cheater takes away Cobert's vote (although I'm sure you guys would happily deny him the right to vote anyway), and so it goes.


Paranoid much? Unless you have information that Cobert is a convicted felon or non-citizen, why would you think anybody would want to deny him the right to vote?

Quote:
Voter fraud may not alter a Presidential election, but down at the district level, where it can really count, or at the local level, where political decisions even more directly affect voters, it can make a huge difference.


Yes, voter fraud is a Bad Thing. And it would be lovely to have a system that enabled a zero-tolerance policy. Photo IDs are not that system, in part because the requirement to show a photo does not address the problem of voter registration rolls that rely on inconsistent and incompatible databases and hence are riddled with errors. It also doesn't address the possibility of erroneous - or fraudulent - vote counting, whether by mechanical, electronic, or human means. The number of instances of people claiming to be someone else to cast a vote is vanishingly small.

I am not aware if there have been any instances of would-be voter fraud that have been prevented by photo ID requirements (though that is admittedly a bit of a prove-the-negative situation). Anybody have that information?
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Golux13 wrote:
Paranoid much?

Clinically so.

As I've said before, I'm not opposed to photo ID laws, but they need to be implemented correctly.
 
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Damian
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Golux13 wrote:
I am not aware if there have been any instances of would-be voter fraud that have been prevented by photo ID requirements (though that is admittedly a bit of a prove-the-negative situation). Anybody have that information?

The investigative report I linked earlier has a link to the database they compiled with all the incidents of alleged voter fraud of all types and their outcomes if available. They found ten incidents of voter impersonation fraud specifically, the type that voter ID laws are meant to prevent, since 2000. This wouldn't cover an incident that was undetected, obviously, but I can't find any reports of anyone being turned away when attempting to impersonate someone to vote. Including in Indiana, whose voter ID law was tried before the Supreme Court.
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XanderF wrote:


You know damn well white people, wearing the "right clothes" in the "right neighborhoods", will be waved through without the right ID...while certain minorities will not enjoy any such generosity.



Bullshit. Voter ID laws aren't some sort of new thing dreamed up by Koch brothers funded hate groups. Your comment above has much, much more hate in it than any commonplace voter ID law.

I live in a state that is largely white, by a huge margin. Yet we have a voter ID law that is similar to others I've read about. I'm also white and I vote in one of the more diverse districts (Lots and lots of Kenyans, West Africans, Sudanese, Indians, etc live in my zip code. Guess what? I have to show my ID to vote. And the last time I was in line I noticed the non-white minority were being required to show ID as well... despite dressing better than I do.
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jeremy cobert
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damiangerous wrote:
The investigative report I linked earlier has a link to the database they compiled with all the incidents of alleged voter fraud of all types and their outcomes if available.


Well, not quite all of them. Your hyper partisan website seems to have left out some very key cases and opinions. For example no mention of this unbiased, nonpartisan report by the Milwaukee Police Department task force that came out for voter ID.
http://media2.620wtmj.com/breakingnews/ElectionResults_2004_...

Why no mention of the the Carter-Baker Commission report?

I dont see anythign about Iowa, apparently the 117 case were all made up by the liberal Des moines register ?
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/iowa-po...

now stop with the shenanigans, son.
 
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Damian
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jeremycobert wrote:
damiangerous wrote:
The investigative report I linked earlier has a link to the database they compiled with all the incidents of alleged voter fraud of all types and their outcomes if available.


Well, not quite all of them. Your hyper partisan website

The great thing about facts and data is that it is non-partisan. Feel free to add some if you have any.

Quote:
seems to have left out some very key cases and opinions. For example no mention of this unbiased, nonpartisan report by the Milwaukee Police Department task force that came out for voter ID.
http://media2.620wtmj.com/breakingnews/ElectionResults_2004_...

Do you understand what this database is and how it was created? It's a collection of cases of election fraud as reported in public records requests from each jurisdiction in the United States. Some jurisdictions did not respond and many responded haphazardly and/or incompletely. (Incidentally I was happy to find that my own state responded with a "remarkable" level of comprehensiveness). There is bound to be missing data for reasons out of their control. However, even just using the data that is comprehensive and complete you can get some idea of how other jurisdictions with similar demographics should look.

As for your Milwaukee report, I'm not seeing any cases of voter misrepresentation in there. Looks like primarily ineligible felons voting and absentee ballots with some double votes and a whole lot of clerical error. Nothing ID would catch.

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Why no mention of the the Carter-Baker Commission report?

Because it's a report on opinions of a particular group in how to improve the system and not in any way relevant to gathering data on incidents of election fraud?

Quote:
I dont see anythign about Iowa, apparently the 117 case were all made up by the liberal Des moines register ?
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/iowa-po...

Do you even understand what we're talking about? None of those cases are voter misrepresentation fraud.

There are three categories, "those involving potential non-citizens; cases involving felons whose voting rights had not been restored; and miscellaneous offenses." The first two categories would not be prevented by voter ID at the polls, since they shouldn't be registered in the first place. As for the third category, "county attorneys have pressed charges in just a single case" and they don't even mention what kind of fraud it was. So what would voter ID have done?


Quote:
now stop with the shenanigans, son.

"Shenanigans" like having reading comprehension and a grasp of the topic being discussed? Can you provide examples of voter fraud that would be prevented by ID at the polling station? That's the topic at hand here.
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Ken
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damiangerous wrote:
As for your Milwaukee report,


It's been discussed on the boards numerous times with the same result each time. You can go point to lots of criticisms of the report's methodology or conclusions, data that contradicts the findings, or discussion that voter ID laws wouldn't address anything it discusses. Then you will be told that none of that matters because it was published, so there.
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jeremy cobert
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damiangerous wrote:
"Shenanigans" like having reading comprehension and a grasp of the topic being discussed?


No, Shenanigans like providing a database of examples that only support your argument . Child, please....

damiangerous wrote:
Can you provide examples of voter fraud that would be prevented by ID at the polling station? That's the topic at hand here.


easily as it happens here in Iowa quite regularly.
http://thegazette.com/subject/news/cedar-rapids-man-accused-...

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/2013/12...

boom, now crawl back under your bridge.
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Drew1365 wrote:

Do you think everything that has a majority support should be legal, or just the specific issues you support?
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Damian
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jeremycobert wrote:
No, Shenanigans like providing a database of examples that only support your argument . Child, please....

You are welcome to provide counter examples. Or, I guess to continue to provide irrelevancies that have nothing to do with ID.

damiangerous wrote:
Can you provide examples of voter fraud that would be prevented by ID at the polling station? That's the topic at hand here.
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easily as it happens here in Iowa quite regularly.

Do you lack any brain function whatsoever? Do you understand what absentee ballots are?

Quote:

Absentee ballot fraud. ID is irrelevant.

Quote:

Three convicted felons voting, one absentee ballot and one person who actually obtained fraudulent ID while stealing his brother's identity. Requiring ID still irrelevant.

Quote:
boom, now crawl back under your bridge.

Pro-tip: When you try to have a 'mic drop moment' try to have said something profound first. Or in your case, something not droolingly stupid.

But hey, try again. Maybe the third time is the charm for you to gain a basic understanding of the question being asked.


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jmilum wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:

Do you think everything that has a majority support should be legal, or just the specific issues you support?


Majority support in every major demographic seems to be a stronger case, at least.
 
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Drew1365 wrote:


I have it on good authority that one of the "registered voters" who responded to that poll was actually a college student incorrectly double registered in both his home district and the district where he attends school.

The possibility that this happened both invalidates the entirety of the poll's finding and constitutes an immanent threat to our democracy.
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