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Doomtown: Reloaded» Forums » General

Subject: Full Playset rss

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ghost whistler
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So, let's be honest, can you really, properly, play with 2x the cards?

Properly?

These games have 4x (or whatever) for a reason: ccg's are built around a theme and to ensure the deck runs well you need the maximum multiples of whatever cards your theme works with. You want to base it around a couple of powerful dudes? You need them in play, if they die you can play them again!

Now, before people respond as I predict they might, let me caveat this:

1. I know you don't need (as in physically cannot play at all) 4x cards. If you are happy with what you have - more power to you. I'm not criticising how people play. In fact that's my whole reason for posting.

2. tournaments and competitions - which you may or may not want any part of as is your right - will require 4x the cards. That's just how it is. Everyone that plays the tournament scene will have brought 2 of each set. I wish it weren't like this, not least of all because that's 1 box, per player, that could have gone to buidling a wider player base which I think would be a better thing.

So, bearing in mind that you can play with one core set and have all sorts of fun, if you want to explore the game to it's fullest I suspect you will need two boxes. So let's keep it real.
 
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Christian Kløve
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Right now you may be right, but every saddlebag and pinebox will move the cardpool away from two core sets being needed.
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Carlos Saldanha
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Unless you want to build a shootout-draw strategy, and for that you'll need playsets.
 
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Seamus O'Toole
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ghost whistler wrote:
So, let's be honest, can you really, properly, play with 2x the cards?

Yes.

ghost whistler wrote:
Properly?

Yes.

ghost whistler wrote:
These games have 4x (or whatever) for a reason: ccg's are built around a theme and to ensure the deck runs well you need the maximum multiples of whatever cards your theme works with. You want to base it around a couple of powerful dudes? You need them in play, if they die you can play them again!

No you can't. If they die they're dead.

ghost whistler wrote:
Now, before people respond as I predict they might, let me caveat this:

1. I know you don't need (as in physically cannot play at all) 4x cards. If you are happy with what you have - more power to you. I'm not criticising how people play. In fact that's my whole reason for posting.

2. tournaments and competitions - which you may or may not want any part of as is your right - will require 4x the cards. That's just how it is. Everyone that plays the tournament scene will have brought 2 of each set. I wish it weren't like this, not least of all because that's 1 box, per player, that could have gone to buidling a wider player base which I think would be a better thing.

So, bearing in mind that you can play with one core set and have all sorts of fun, if you want to explore the game to it's fullest I suspect you will need two boxes. So let's keep it real.

Some deck types will benefit from having 4x of some key cards. Some won't.
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Carlos Saldanha
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Also, you'll have to play 4 of these:


cool
 
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ghost whistler
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That's exactly the sort of thing I mean.

I have never played a CCG where this wasn't the case, where you could reasonably get away with less than the optimum card number. They just don't work that way.

Again, so we're clear: if you enjoy playing with the core set - good luck to you. I'm not criticising your fun.
 
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ghost whistler
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tuathail wrote:
ghost whistler wrote:
So, let's be honest, can you really, properly, play with 2x the cards?

Yes.

ghost whistler wrote:
Properly?

Yes.

ghost whistler wrote:
These games have 4x (or whatever) for a reason: ccg's are built around a theme and to ensure the deck runs well you need the maximum multiples of whatever cards your theme works with. You want to base it around a couple of powerful dudes? You need them in play, if they die you can play them again!

No you can't. If they die they're dead.
Not if they've been discarded instead of aced.
 
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Christian Kløve
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I respectfully disagree that including a full playset would be helpful for new players. Having the core set include a playset of the cards would either reduce the number of cards in the set or increase the price. Neither would be good for new players. This discussion is hardly new. The same topic was raised for 40k Conquest and Android: Netrunner that I know of. At least for Doomtown only two sets are needed for a full playset.
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Chad Woodward
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Outside of a select few cards you really only need or want 1x or 2x of any given card. I have a pretty decent deck that only has 2 cards that are at 3x copies and I can easily replace those with other options and it would still be just as good.
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Troy Hughes
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I'm really not sure what the point of the OP is. It seems to be asking a question. But then later responses by the original poster makes it seem like they already have an answer in mind.

Is this a complaint about having to buy two core sets?*


*(Another example of asking a question when the asker already has an answer in mind...)
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Carlos Saldanha
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I dunno if the guy/gal wants to complaint but let's hope he/she will not look into 40K: Conquest because that game is really a money-grab apart of being a bad game.

And praise AEG that did it this way, two core sets and you're done, or just grab the deluxe edition!
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Jason Maxwell
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ghost whistler wrote:
tuathail wrote:
ghost whistler wrote:
So, let's be honest, can you really, properly, play with 2x the cards?

Yes.

ghost whistler wrote:
Properly?

Yes.

ghost whistler wrote:
These games have 4x (or whatever) for a reason: ccg's are built around a theme and to ensure the deck runs well you need the maximum multiples of whatever cards your theme works with. You want to base it around a couple of powerful dudes? You need them in play, if they die you can play them again!

No you can't. If they die they're dead.
Not if they've been discarded instead of aced.

If they're discarded instead of aced, they're not dead like you stated in the earlier post.

(Discarding represents having to get medical attention and being out of the fight for a while. Acing represents death.)
 
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Troy Hughes
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tuathail wrote:

Some deck types will benefit from having 4x of some key cards. Some won't.


This is the answer to the question.
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Lester Ortiz
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JasonRMax wrote:
ghost whistler wrote:
tuathail wrote:
ghost whistler wrote:
So, let's be honest, can you really, properly, play with 2x the cards?

Yes.

ghost whistler wrote:
Properly?

Yes.

ghost whistler wrote:
These games have 4x (or whatever) for a reason: ccg's are built around a theme and to ensure the deck runs well you need the maximum multiples of whatever cards your theme works with. You want to base it around a couple of powerful dudes? You need them in play, if they die you can play them again!

No you can't. If they die they're dead.
Not if they've been discarded instead of aced.

If they're discarded instead of aced, they're not dead like you stated in the earlier post.

(Discarding represents having to get medical attention and being out of the fight for a while. Acing represents death.)


Exactly. They're wounded to the point of not being able to fight/act but they're not dead.
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ghost whistler
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I've decided to buy a core box/set. I have been playing the old game recently and used to have a large collection of the old stuff, and it is a good game.

The point is: strategy. When you don't have a full playset and just an arbitrary mix of cards your choices are limited. That's just how card games like this are built.
 
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Carlos Saldanha
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I guess one core set is a solid way to enter the game, but if you want to build comp decks you'll have to buy two cores instead.

It's not for the amount of a specific card in your deck but if you want to build a deck around shootouts (and since you said you already play the Classic Doomtown you'll know this) and want to build a strategy around full-houses or straight-flushes draws, you really need to have playsets.
 
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Luke Stirling
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oDESGOSTO wrote:
I guess one core set is a solid way to enter the game, but if you want to build comp decks you'll have to buy two cores instead.

It's not for the amount of a specific card in your deck but if you want to build a deck around shootouts (and since you said you already play the Classic Doomtown you'll know this) and want to build a strategy around full-houses or straight-flushes draws, you really need to have playsets.

The DTR deck building rules actually limit that somewhat. As there are limits on specific card values in addition to thr 4-card limits, you might find that once the card pool begins to grow, you may find multiple cards of a given value competing for space in a deck. Using up all of a particular value on four copies of a single card might not be ideal. It's all speculation at this point, but it does look like card variety is going to be a bigger thing in DTR compared to DT Classic.
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Seamus O'Toole
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oDESGOSTO wrote:
Also, you'll have to play 4 of these:


cool

I find the idea of including 4 copies of the same cheating card to be quite ironic

oDESGOSTO wrote:
I guess one core set is a solid way to enter the game, but if you want to build comp decks you'll have to buy two cores instead.

It's not for the amount of a specific card in your deck but if you want to build a deck around shootouts (and since you said you already play the Classic Doomtown you'll know this) and want to build a strategy around full-houses or straight-flushes draws, you really need to have playsets.

Actually I think shootout decks (unless you're going for DMH) are one of the types that can do perfectly fine without having a full playset.

The deck that most needs playsets is the 4th Ring (if you're building it around getting the best use of Hexes).
Dudes 'n' Deeds would not use any cards from a second playset (in my opinion).
Shootout decks built for straight flushes would get hardly any benefit from a second box. If built for a full house or four of a kind, you can build it from one box fine depending on your faction and the values chosen, a second box gives you more options to build around.
Decks built for a dead man's hand probably want the second box because there's no substitute for 4 copies of Steven Wiles.
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ghost whistler
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oDESGOSTO wrote:
I guess one core set is a solid way to enter the game, but if you want to build comp decks you'll have to buy two cores instead.

It's not for the amount of a specific card in your deck but if you want to build a deck around shootouts (and since you said you already play the Classic Doomtown you'll know this) and want to build a strategy around full-houses or straight-flushes draws, you really need to have playsets.


I played a deck that was entirely dead man's hand, but you could not guarantee getting anything more than an illegal four of a kind. It is exceptaionlly hard to get that because of the cards themselves (putting dudes into play for instance).

The more you load your deck toward high ranks, the less legal it is likely to be.

A clean deck should be able to produce flushes providing you have enough bullets.
 
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Michal Rus
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Food for thought to OP: Jim Despaw, the winner of one of the two DT:R events on GenCon played a Law Dogs deck, that only featured 3 copies of Bottom Dealin', everything else was 2x max. Changing 3rd Bottom Dealin' to say, Make the Smart Choice is not very harmful to decks strategy I would think.
So I guess answer to Your question, if the game could be played properly and competitvly with just one core set is YES.

edit: Oops, there was a third Coachwhip as well, but still.
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Chad Woodward
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tuathail wrote:
oDESGOSTO wrote:
Also, you'll have to play 4 of these:


cool

I find the idea of including 4 copies of the same cheating card to be quite ironic

oDESGOSTO wrote:
I guess one core set is a solid way to enter the game, but if you want to build comp decks you'll have to buy two cores instead.

It's not for the amount of a specific card in your deck but if you want to build a deck around shootouts (and since you said you already play the Classic Doomtown you'll know this) and want to build a strategy around full-houses or straight-flushes draws, you really need to have playsets.

Actually I think shootout decks (unless you're going for DMH) are one of the types that can do perfectly fine without having a full playset.

The deck that most needs playsets is the 4th Ring (if you're building it around getting the best use of Hexes).
Dudes 'n' Deeds would not use any cards from a second playset (in my opinion).
Shootout decks built for straight flushes would get hardly any benefit from a second box. If built for a full house or four of a kind, you can build it from one box fine depending on your faction and the values chosen, a second box gives you more options to build around.
Decks built for a dead man's hand probably want the second box because there's no substitute for 4 copies of Steven Wiles.


Dudes and Deeds actually needs a couple of cards at 4x. Well at least the best version of it but those are really just cheatin punishment cards and if you're playing in a meta that doesn't have a lot of cheatin then you can get by without the extra two copies.

4th Ring though really does need the full playset to reliably get hexes in play and casting. Same with Gadgets and Guns you probably want about 3x of them.

I think overall this is the best put together base set of any LCG for just doing a 1 box deck.
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David Boeren
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Crumbs wrote:
I think overall this is the best put together base set of any LCG for just doing a 1 box deck.


I agree by a long margin.
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Eric Jome
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ghost whistler wrote:
So, let's be honest, can you really, properly, play with 2x the cards?

Properly?


Yes.
 
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Eric Jome
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ghost whistler wrote:
I have never played a CCG where this wasn't the case, where you could reasonably get away with less than the optimum card number.


Then you've now seen a new thing to you.
 
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Eric Jome
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oDESGOSTO wrote:
I guess one core set is a solid way to enter the game, but if you want to build comp decks you'll have to buy two cores instead.


I don't agree. You can build very competitive decks out of one. You just have to play the right strategy if you do; not all strategies are available without a play set.
 
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