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Subject: Movement - What killed it for our group rss

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Jason Robinette
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Hi all.

I loved this game... and we had a pretty decent regular group for a long time after the game was out of print.

One sticking point was the fact that there are two methods of movement, and that you could pick and choose whichever method you wanted every time you moved. This meant that people would always pick the most advantageous method... every time.

This created an advantage that made some rather negative playing experience for our group, which led to the game falling out of fashion for us.

I don't think any of us were bothered by the differences, but one method should have been selected at the start of the game... and used exclusively for that game. Switching on the fly was... very good... and made the game much easier.

Any thoughts?
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Jim Montanus
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Thought 1: If it makes the game better for you, do it.

Thought 2: This would probably have to be decided before deck construction.

Thought 3: Selecting starter movement when playing against Ringwraith decks would be more difficult for heros, since the Ringwraith starter movement is intended as a mild penalty.

Thought 4: As much as I love MECCG, I do have complaints about the difficulty/complexity of the game. The issue of starter/region movement for me personally is insignificant compared to these other issues.
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Robert Loblah
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Can't say I know of anyone, or any group, that played this way. Beyond early teaching games, everybody used map-based movement.
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Rauli Kettunen
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Yep, region movement all the way, maybe opening Rivendell to Lothlorien using starter movement to avoid Cave Worms (keyed to High Pass/Redhorn Gate). Or if you need to get 5+ regions this turn (Lothlorien -> Iron Hills Dwarfhold), where region movement maxes out at 4 regions.
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Mike Brewer
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I always play that you choose up front (before making decks, ideally) which form of movement to use.

I too am surprised that this became the thing that most put you off the game!

Mike
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Pawel Ziolkowski
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When you start playing it can be a little complicated. But later its not a problem to use starter or region movement. Depends on situation you choose which one is better for you and thats all.
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Robert Loblah
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Yeah, I get what you're saying, and I'm aware that sometimes one or the other is more advantageous, but I've never met anyone that thought changing between movement types in game was acceptable. Or even different decks in the same game using differing options (barring someone totally new who didn't have the regions). I don't have the tournament rules handy, but was this allowed under them?
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Jason Robinette
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Bobloblah wrote:
Yeah, I get what you're saying, and I'm aware that sometimes one or the other is more advantageous, but I've never met anyone that thought changing between movement types in game was acceptable. Or even different decks in the same game using differing options (barring someone totally new who didn't have the regions). I don't have the tournament rules handy, but was this allowed under them?


Mind you, this was many years ago... but if memory serves, it was in fact allowed in the tournament rules.

It didn't put me off the game so much as it was a factor in depleting our player base so that we just didn't have many players left.

There have since been "better" games that have come along, but I still catch myself wanting to play this on occasion. Of course, selling off my stuff (especially the irreplaceable Balrog decks) kind of makes it tough to get back in. (and tougher to get other people to get back in)

One day, perhaps
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Robert Loblah
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Okay, I'll take your word for it that it's in the tournament rules; presumably they didn't want to exclude new players. As for there being better games since this one? Now you're just being silly.
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Jason Robinette
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I did qualify it with quotes. You can read those as sarcastic if it helps
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Jason Robinette
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I was reading the Council of Elrond... it looks like that may not be an issue any more. Also, they allow up to 10 proxies, which is pretty cool, actually.

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Robert Loblah
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Thanos wrote:
I did qualify it with quotes. You can read those as sarcastic if it helps

Oh, to be clear, that last sentence in my post should've ended with:
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Jason Robinette
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Bobloblah wrote:
Thanos wrote:
I did qualify it with quotes. You can read those as sarcastic if it helps

Oh, to be clear, that last sentence in my post should've ended with:


Hey, if we're talking silly.... we could use the randomizers on the cards rather than dice... Now that's silly.
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Mark Riley
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I think it says it all that the latest incarnation of ME is the Arda rules and they have no starter movement - only region movement. Its a shame that ICE never completed the rules redesign they were working on before they lost the Tolkien estate licence but I think the Arda system, especially the pre-placing of MP cards at particular Sites, is a great improvement over the original and would make more sense to new players.
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David B
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I'm surprised at people finding the different movement types a problem, or thinking that only one type of movement could be used in a game. The different types of movement are meant to complement each other. Starter movement represents movement along the roads and main pathways of Middle Earth. By nature this tends to be safer (in general, since you can't key to specific regions). Region movement represents movement across country, not along main roads. Both of these movements types are meant to be used in the game. Most games I've played we've used both, although region movement does get used more.
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José San Miguel
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davbart wrote:
I'm surprised at people finding the different movement types a problem, or thinking that only one type of movement could be used in a game. The different types of movement are meant to complement each other. Starter movement represents movement along the roads and main pathways of Middle Earth. By nature this tends to be safer (in general, since you can't key to specific regions). Region movement represents movement across country, not along main roads. Both of these movements types are meant to be used in the game. Most games I've played we've used both, although region movement does get used more.


This exactly ^^.
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Brad Miller
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goatleaf wrote:
I think it says it all that the latest incarnation of ME is the Arda rules


No they aren't. Arda rules were a variant set of rules for a shared deck game. The Arda rules aren't the latest incarnation of the rules.
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Carolyn Longinton
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i think he meant latest "playable" rules are Arda based.
in order to keep the starter move viable, the region move should be made statistically less advantageous, like one less region move.
 
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