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Subject: Thrasher - Install all the things [shaper] rss

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Grish Noren
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Thrasher

Thrasher - Is a reference to an OS running out of memory and constantly loading and unloading data from disk into main memory. You know this as the apple/windows freeze. Anyhow, I've truly taken the name to heart. Here we go:

Kate "Mac" McCaffrey: Digital Tinker (Core Set)

Hardware (2)
2x Omni-Drive (Creation and Control)

Resource (12)
3x Aesop's Pawnshop (Core Set)
3x Ice Analyzer (Creation and Control)
3x Oracle May (Honor and Profit) •••
3x Sacrificial Construct (Core Set)

Icebreaker (6)
2x Dagger (Creation and Control)
2x Gordian Blade (Core Set)
2x Snowball (Trace Amount)

Program (25)
3x Cache (The Spaces Between) •••
3x Cloak (Creation and Control)
2x Djinn (Core Set) ••••
3x Gorman Drip v1 (Opening Moves) •••
3x Leprechaun (Upstalk)
3x Magnum Opus (Core Set)
1x Nerve Agent (Cyber Exodus) ••
1x Net Shield (Core Set)
3x Sahasrara (Creation and Control)
3x Self-modifying Code (Creation and Control)

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.

Oracle May is usually an event engine because events do things that are typically awesome. My only intention is to use her for programs. Some of those programs make me money. Some of them break things. And some of them serve to host other programs.

I threw this deck together with every intention of losing, but sometimes its really hard to lose with this deck; of course, against fast advance, you'll probably lose, but I've found it to be very resilient against glacier because you amass this momentum that a glacier deck just can't overcome. You move into a sniper position and use any excess cash to harry the front lines.

Economy:
- Steady economy is largely Aesop's + Oracle. It's a reliable +5 per turn. If you need to, Magnum Opus can back this up getting you to +9, but you should avoid paying for it if possible. Aesop's should hit the stuff you don't need (Used Cache->Gorman->Net Shield->Sahsrarereara...->etc). You'll build up a lot of board state in the early game, and that translates into money in the late game.

- You should use ice analyzer & sahasrara to smooth the installation cost and keep your self from paying out of pocket as much as possible. Your money should only be used to break ice and deal with things your opponent puts on the board. Paying 1 or 2 here and there is doable, but in order to actually profit, you should be using other sources of income to install, including Kate's ability. Pop self mod on opponent's turn to fetch something if it means saving you a credit.

- Burst Economy: Cache & Gorman are the momentary economy this deck needs. Cache is just as good as lucky find in this deck and at half the influence, 100% less the cost. Gorman may not be profitable depending on your opponent, but it's good aesop's fodder if you're looking to throw something away. It'll shape your opponent's turns a bit more than you'd expect it to.

- Recuring Credits: Omni-Drive & cloak can save you a lot of money over the game. Using either of them 4 times is a sure gamble a piece; you'll likely hit that mark. Omni-Drive turns djinn, net shield, or a breaker into a money saver. Djinn'ing for cache is acceptable if you need the money or nerve agent for the access. Otherwise, it's just there to help hold your ever expanding rig.

Breakers:
Honestly, I was just trying to save influence.

- Snowball is particularly great these days with next silver running around. One poorly set up server is your godsend. Expensive to use at times, but effective. Battering Ram takes up too much mu for this deck, but it has other bonuses that might make you consider it. For 1 more credit you get 2 more strength and all your other strength persists. But, each piece of ice it encounters costs minimum 2 to get through. It's a tricky thing, but I chose snowball.

- Gordian Blade. Good and a cost saver if there are multiple next bronze's on the board. Also just generally about as good as you get if you aren't running yog. Torch is too expensive for this deck to install in the early game. Money should be saved for breaking.

- Dagger. It's hard to like this card, but I like it more than my other options. My original junk deck went in on all the chips, but it just doesn't float with oracle may. So, this is the weakest part of the deck. If you play this you'll find yourself looking for an alternative. Let me know if you find it, please. Maybe it's switching a drip for a mimic... Or sharp shooter/deus x. I'd encourage you to look for an algorithmic solution.

Other notes

Self-Mod shouldn't be used up right away unless you have a good reason for it. It's best to get cloak if you can with it or your last breaker. Draw heavily first to find things early if you have to. You have enough redundancy that pitching some stuff is ok. In fact, you should probably be drawing 1-2 cards a turn until aesop's & oracle show up. I'll often go 2 or three turns of bursting for three or four cards.

I usually try to install my breakers on the primary level. Throw all your junk on your djinn-shazarade chain, including your opus & cloaks. It makes destroyer choices more interesting and allows you to use sacrifical construct a bit more effectively.

Ice Analyzer is a card I'm growing to love. In this deck it's pure cache. I will mulligan for it. It allows you to play extremely aggressively while building up your money for your rig. Late game, it's an easy mark.

So thoughts?

Current win record since the deck stabilized (5/6)
-1 NBN (NEH)
+4 HB (Next, ETF, ST, Foundry)
+1 Jinteki (PE)
 
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Sean Trundle
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For a deck with this many programs, I think the hosted MU approach is going to cause some difficlties. Your primary breaker suite is minimum 4 MU (since Dagger requires at least one cloak for basically anything besides Rototurrets), and you've got 3x MO and a host of utility programs (Sahasrara seems pretty clutch here) to boot. This creates some install-order problems with Omni-Drive, Djinn, and Leprechaun, and that problem is significant, since you're not running clone chips or scavenges to move stuff around after the fact. Cards like MO, Nerve Agent, and Cloak are basically dead draws until you've got the right place to host them. And if you're burning SMC to fetch the right daemon, that means you're not using it to find the right icebreaker.

In short, it looks like it's going to be slow to get up and running. In general, it really looks like you wanted to make a "Program May" work and overcommitted to that concept (as evidenced by Leprechaun, e.g., which has exactly two targets that make it anything more than an expensive and fragile Akamatsu).
--

On a couple of more technical notes:
I would not count Oracle May as a "reliable" 2cr/turn when she has a 30% miss rate in this deck. We might say she's a "reliable" source for 1.4cr/turn over the long-term, but reliable is probably not a good descriptor given that you can't depend on her credits in any given turn.

Installing Ice Analyzer only to trash it is not an Easy Mark. It has the same click efficiency as Easy Mark, but it is slower and limited in bandwidth (by the number of Aesop's you have out and the number of other targets for Aesop's). If click efficiency were the only measure of economic cards, Daily Casts would unseat Sure Gamble as the 3x autoinclude in virtually every runner deck.

Moreover, using Omni-Drive 4 times is not a Sure Gamble. In addition to all the reasons above, you've invested at least 2 credits into installing it (3 without Kate's ability). If you use the recurring credit 4 times (tough to do with Djinn or Net Shield, but that's besides the point), you've 'gained' 2 credits. It also comes with 1 MU (sort of: less flexible than a real MU), but that MU would be free (or 1 credit) if you were running Akamatsu in its place, so you're still only netting 2 credits. I'm not saying Omni-Drive is always a bad card -- if installed early and used regularly to power an icebreaker, it can be a pretty solid play -- but if you're even thinking of sticking it under a Djinn, it's probably not the right card for this deck.
 
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John Fanjoy
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No R&D multiaccess seems like a severe drawback. Can't find influence for Medium at least? Maybe either -1 Djinn -1 Gorman Drip or -3 Gorman Drip. Are the Drips really that good?
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Grish Noren
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CitizenFry wrote:
No R&D multiaccess seems like a severe drawback. Can't find influence for Medium at least? Maybe either -1 Djinn -1 Gorman Drip or -3 Gorman Drip. Are the Drips really that good?


Medium is cool, but I'm not sure that the way this deck operates is consistent enough to use medium as a pressure point. Viruses getting wiped are good because you get another turn to build up credits, but if your waffling between 1 and 3 accesses I'm not sure that's good enough. I do like that medium is fetchable with djinn, so there are points for it and I'll try it out, but my experience so far has been that committing to centrals is a mistake with this deck.

What I'm more intrigued by is Keyhole, and I may give that a shot. For a click it's essentially maker's eye. It's a consistent 3 dig and it gets around NAPD & future perfect annoyances. Forcing ice onto archives also has benefits since up until I install keyhole I don't much care about the server. I need the djinn, but I'd be willing to lose the drips if keyhole wins games in the deck. Will test. That would leave 2 slots for something. I'm between paracia & sharpshooter.

strundle wrote:
For a deck with this many programs, I think the hosted MU approach is going to cause some difficlties. Your primary breaker suite is minimum 4 MU (since Dagger requires at least one cloak for basically anything besides Rototurrets), and you've got 3x MO and a host of utility programs (Sahasrara seems pretty clutch here) to boot. This creates some install-order problems with Omni-Drive, Djinn, and Leprechaun, and that problem is significant, since you're not running clone chips or scavenges to move stuff around after the fact. Cards like MO, Nerve Agent, and Cloak are basically dead draws until you've got the right place to host them. And if you're burning SMC to fetch the right daemon, that means you're not using it to find the right icebreaker.


I would have thought the same thing until I played the deck; remember, I expected this to be as horrible as it looks and was surprised. 1 Sahasrara is often good enough, so you can pawn it midgame and install another one where you want it if you think the money is valuable on it. It doesn't really matter which order you get sahsara & djinn in. You usually only need one open mem slot to keep aesops going, and if you really look at the deck, there are 7 ways to get that extra memory. Most decks only play 3-ish. So, as long as you've installed 2 breakers on their own, the memory usually comes out next and provides for whatever else. The plan with opus is to wait to install it anyways. You don't need or want it right away.

I will agree that dagger+cloak is slower than I would like it to be. There simply aren't great infaction breakers for sentries. It'd be nice to have more stealth credits for it. Most games I haven't needed them though.

Quote:
In short, it looks like it's going to be slow to get up and running. In general, it really looks like you wanted to make a "Program May" work and overcommitted to that concept (as evidenced by Leprechaun, e.g., which has exactly two targets that make it anything more than an expensive and fragile Akamatsu).


I'm not convinced it's an over-commitment. Leprechaun usually hosts self mod & magnum at some point during the game and when its just an akamatsu that's fine too. Remember, ice analyzer & sasdfasdfewr can pay for it just fine. So sometimes it's as good as a +2 chip.

Quote:
I would not count Oracle May as a "reliable" 2cr/turn when she has a 30% miss rate in this deck. We might say she's a "reliable" source for 1.4cr/turn over the long-term, but reliable is probably not a good descriptor given that you can't depend on her credits in any given turn.


30% miss rate is acceptable when you're getting a card and 2 credits 70% of the time. That's some serious efficiency in the long run. I'll take 2.4 efficiency out of a card. It's better than prof-con at that point.

Quote:
Installing Ice Analyzer only to trash it is not an Easy Mark. It has the same click efficiency as Easy Mark, but it is slower and limited in bandwidth (by the number of Aesop's you have out and the number of other targets for Aesop's). If click efficiency were the only measure of economic cards, Daily Casts would unseat Sure Gamble as the 3x autoinclude in virtually every runner deck.


You don't often install it to trash it. I usually get 5-8 credits out of it before I start chucking them. People play a lot of ice.

The rest I don't really disagree with; there are worse places to put djinn, but omni is mostly there for shield or a breaker. It's a back up place to put things and a bit of econ. Kind of wish it was stealth.
 
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Grish Noren
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This deck is just fun to play:



That's 3 leprechauns and 2 djinns almost fully loaded. Gordian is on omni. Snowball is all on its own. Nerve agent won the game. I lost the keyhole earlier to make space after threatening a central. Killed a jackson with it. Early game pressure with ice analyzer got me in and got agendas.

Then it was just board state. All 3 cloaks on the board and a sharp shooter.

My changes were -3 drip, +1 Keyhole +2 sharpshooter

It's fun!!!

Ice as I recall it since this is fuzzy is

r&d: eli->ichi 2.0 -> viktor -> hiemdall 2.0
hq: heimdall 2.0
remote: viktor 2.0->Wotan->viktor 1.0->ichi 1.0->viktor 2.0 ->heimdall 2.0

Some really nasty servers, but I got into all of them.
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Daniel Wray
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Quote:
Ice as I recall it since this is fuzzy is

r&d: eli->ichi 2.0 -> viktor -> hiemdall 2.0
hq: heimdall 2.0
remote: viktor 2.0->Wotan->viktor 1.0->ichi 1.0->viktor 2.0 ->heimdall 2.0

Some really nasty servers, but I got into all of them.


Impressive... most impressive.
 
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Grish Noren
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cynchwyrm wrote:
Quote:
Ice as I recall it since this is fuzzy is

r&d: eli->ichi 2.0 -> viktor -> hiemdall 2.0
hq: heimdall 2.0
remote: viktor 2.0->Wotan->viktor 1.0->ichi 1.0->viktor 2.0 ->heimdall 2.0

Some really nasty servers, but I got into all of them.


Impressive... most impressive.


Yeah and that's the st game. Eliza was up and running
 
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