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Subject: Help me to love this game! Rules too confusing! rss

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claudio cavalensi
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Hello!
I've got this game 'cause I think it's very original and nice with the co-operative mode and the story book.

I've learned many other games but this one has something that confuses me so much that I never get to start with the first play and I get stuck reading the rulebook.

I think there are so many variables in any aspect that are hard to remember for me and I guess the rulebook is not made in such a way that teaches you how to approach to the game.

I've even watched the instructional video at Watch it played but, again, I get bored or lost before the end of the video. Just too many things to remember!

I wouldn't like to sell it and I'm really willing to give it a go but I was wondering if there is a better way to approach and face this game in some other way than just reading the rulebook as I did.

Thank you for your advice in advance!
Claudio
 
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Neil Blaiberg
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Hmm - I saw the thread title and immediately thought "you need the Watch it Played videos".

If you've already done that and it doesn't work for you then I'm not sure what else to suggest.
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William Bowers
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Check out the files section for the game here on BGG. There are some player aids which might be of help.
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steven smolders
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Love to play boardgames with my family and spending time toghter
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i also own this game and i also find it way to fidly and it has to many little rules to really enjoy the game.

What should be a fun experiance with your child gets overshadowed by the rules.
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Michael
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TheRiddler1976 wrote:
Hmm - I saw the thread title and immediately thought "you need the Watch it Played videos".


I second this suggestion. It's a fairly lengthy video but presented in a very entertaining manner. Most importantly, it is really clear in its explanations, and I think it will end your confusion.

So my suggestion:

1. Watch the video. http://www.plaidhatgames.com/games/mice-and-mystics, click on "Video"

2. Download the FAQ (also under the above link, "Support")

3. If you have specific questions, simply type in a few keywords into google. Chances are that you will be directed to a thread on BGG.

4. If you have other questions, just post them here - the BGG community, including Mice & Mystic's designer, usually provides fast advice.

Given that you like the coop nature and theme, I'm sure this will help you to love the game.
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K AM
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Hello Claudio,

To quote a famous book. DON'T PANIC!

Here's my advice...set it up, and start playing, especially if you've already viewed the Watch it Played video, and paged through the rulebook.

The First Chapter in the Base box plays pretty well. In fact--if you want, just set up the first tile (The Guardroom), and don't worry about the rest initially.

For that Tile, you will have 5 initiative cards--Rat Warriors and 4 Mouse Heroes you choose. Here's a suggestion for a starting party: Mouse and Ability Card. Make sure you've gotten their starting items for each from the Search Deck.
Collin (Battle Squeak), Collin's Sword, Leather Breastplate
Tilda (First Aid), Tilda's Mace Leather Breastplate
Filch (Dodge), Dagger
Nez (Resolve)., Nez's Hammer

Shuffle the Small Initiative Cards for these mice and the Rat Warriors and place them in order on the board (with the puzzle fit).

Put one rat Warrior on each of the Minion Entry spaces (with the paw symbols), and place all 4 of your Mouse Hero figures right next to the Sword Hilt.

In the rulebook just concentrate on the section about how minions move and attack, and how an attack is resolved. The mice activations will be very similar--moving adjacent or into the same space as a rat, and making a melee attack.

Just run through this fight until you are comfortable with how the movement and combat works--you'll understand it very quickly.

A few things to remember:
1) Every figure starts by rolling a movement die. Minions move up to that number of Spaces. Heroes add that number to their Move (Paw symbol) value on their character card.
2) If you roll a Cheese on an attack or Defense roll (only), you collect a Cheese token which is how you use your ability cards (spending cheese equal to the number at the cheese symbol at the top).
If a minion rolls a cheese, just add a cheese token to the Cheese wheel (but don't worry about that for now).

Also--know you're not alone in this. It took me a little effort to get started on my first play, but I kept the rules close, and viewed the Watch it Played video. Once you get over that initial hump, this will be a breeze.

The core mechanic is very simple and easy to understand--once you've played it. There are quite a few details, but you can deal with those as you go.

I've run demos for this game for quite a few people, and they were all able to pick it up. I realize that doing this without a demo is a bit harder, but I really think that you'll see how it all works pretty quickly. Just take it one tile at a time.

KAM
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K AM
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Hello,

One other Suggestion. If possible, have the game setup where you can view the video a little at a time. Watch the Setup, and then set your game board up. Then go back to the video as needed to see how the movement and combat works.

There's plenty of detail in the video, but you probably don't need to worry about most of it for that first tile. But just refer to it as needed, along with the rulebook.

KAM

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Ray Greenley
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Here's another idea. If the 'How to Play' video is too boring, maybe the Watch it Played gameplay videos would be more entertaining. Start with Episode 2 or 3 (Episode 1 is the 'How to Play' video, episode 2 introduces the characters). Watch them play the game and you can pick up the rules as they go:



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Scott Sinclair
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Claudio,

Everyone's responses are good but I would like to address the other part of this equation...you. I am going to try to set some expectations for you in this response.

I probably have 30 plus plays of this game in various iterations and styles. I have played it solo, with my kid, and as part of a play by forum.* Despite all of these plays, I still reference the story/rule book multiple times during a game, and I still miss some things.

Part of this is due to my personal struggle with my own attention span (squirrel!) The other part is due to the nature of the game. In order to build variety in the game and make the story interesting, rules need to be added or changed from one chapter to the next, requiring continuous reference to the story book. This is the nature of the beast but in absentia would make the game very samey, which I think is worse. Your story book (and rule book) will be well worn by the time you finish it.

Now, how to get by this (assuming you can now that I've told you rules referencing is part of the game). At the beginning, before I played with my kid, I played solo. This allowed me to make mistakes and take all the time I wanted to figure out how the play the game. This included the already mentioned rule book referencing, video watching, and google searching (which is surprising easy and quick because of all the passionate people out their willing to help one another out). Try this with the first chapter or two, and then start playing with others.

The second thing you can do (and perhaps the most overlooked) is realize this is a co-opt game. It’s your game, do with it what you will. Don't like a rule, change it. Forget something? Who cares? As long as the end goal of spending quality time with friends and family, and taking part in the telling of a very well done story is met...you've won!

Finally, if all of these tips and advice we have given you doesn’t tickly your feather, this game may not be for you. It is a cruel harsh reality butnot everyone likes M&M. If this is the case, you can pass off your copy, or perhaps, find a creative way to use all of the juicy pits and pieces and beautiful artwork for some other hobby endeavor. I hope you give it another go, once you get over the hump of the initial learning curve, you won’t be disappointed!

*The play by forum might be another resource for you to help you understand the flow of the game.
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Paul S
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Chiken Bird wrote:

The second thing you can do (and perhaps the most overlooked) is realize this is a co-opt game. It’s your game, do with it what you will. Don't like a rule, change it. Forget something? Who cares? As long as the end goal of spending quality time with friends and family, and taking part in the telling of a very well done story is met...you've won!


+1

My approach in my first few games was "make it up as you go along". Got a problem? Agree a thematic answer.

My minor OCD meant that wasn't enough - so I'd jot down rule questions as we played, and look them up in the forums/FAQ later. Over time I picked up most of the rules in this way and don't often now need to refer to the rulebook.

Worked for me, anyway. Wouldn't be a good experience to play M&M with a group with minute-by-minute rule checking.

Worth it? For me, absolutely. One of my favourite games.
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Amber Harbin
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These are all good suggestions. Personally I just read the rules, tried to remember as much as possible- then played. If I had a question I looked it up later and just followed my instincts.(Of course if I had a question that might alter the game a lot I would look it up.)

Later as you get more familiar with the mechanics and how you think it should be played, go back and read the rules. You'll understand more of it, and most surly find things that you are doing wrong.(Most of the time making it harder, but that's ok because other wise the game would become stagnate/boring.)

In my opinion, this approach almost made it a new game each time I played!
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claudio cavalensi
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Thank you SO SO very much for all your advice and huge feedback to this thread! I never expected so many replies when I opened the forum tonight!

So good to know there are so many gamers willing to help and give precious advice each other!

I will surely follow all your good tips and thanks also for the links to the other videos and the player aids which I've just downloaded and I will surely print out and have by my side when first attempting to play the game!

I was too afraid I guess to even start the first chapter but I'll do as you say! Start with the first chapter playing on my own and get into the game and then, once the rules will be clearer, play it with my friends!

Again, THANK YOU!

Claudio
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K AM
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Hello Claudio,

Best of luck and enjoy!

KAM
 
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Ferdinand C
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I do agree with the fact that this game just is too much fiddling about. It is just not a game for casual play with all the rules, exceptions, things to remember etc. etc. I have tried to play this game a couple of times and always get stuck in the rulebook until my head starts spinning and I don't want to play anymore. All suggestions in this thread are very good, I also have tried to just start playing the way I think is fun (with my kids). But then I feel I'm missing something out...

Although I really really would like to like this game, I guess it is just not for me. Unfortunately. I really think some companion app, that guides you through the chapters would be in order to get some speed-up / pace in this game.
 
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