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Catan: Seafarers» Forums » Rules

Subject: Seafarers with C&K, initial knight placement clarification rss

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GMOFreePortland.com
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Question concerning the initial placement of a newly created knight when combining Seafarers with Cities & Knights. The photo shows four possible placement of knights. The blue knight on the left is legally placed at the end of a road. The red knight on the lower right is illegal, as it is placed on a sea-hex. It could be moved there on a later turn, just not in the initial placement. The question concerns the white & orange knights on the coast. White is at an intersection of land and two sea hexes. Orange is at an intersection of sea and two land hexes. Have they been legally placed? Or are these considered to be at sea?



 
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Destroyer of Islands
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I don't recall any rule that says a knight can't be built in the middle of the sea. So long as it is connected to a ship, the knight is considered to be on the ship. As far as I am concerned, all 4 of those placements are legal.
 
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From page 13 of Cities & Knights, 4th edition, under Seafarers Variant:

Quote:
You may move a knight (but not place a new knight) on an
intersection of sea hexes, if there is a line of ships to that
intersection. The knight is considered to be on the ships.


Under these rules, the red knight is clearly illegal. The white knight might be illegal because it is an intersection of two sea hexes. The orange knight has only the one sea hex, so it might be legal.
 
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Adrian Koester
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My first thought is to poll your playing group and go with the consensus.

My second thought is that the knight placements for orange and white are legal since borders between land and sea tiles are typically considered BOTH land and sea, hence the ability to place either a road or a ship.

However, I could see a plausible argument that the placement of a road or a ship on those border routes would make a difference. Following this logic, the placement of the orange and white knights would be illegal, as they are adjacent to a ship, would be considered at sea. If the orange and white players had placed roads, rather than ships, on the same locations, the initial knight placements would then be considered land based and legal.

Nothing other than my own musings here folks. Take them for what they are worth.
 
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Jörg Baumgartner
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Erniepaul wrote:
From page 13 of Cities & Knights, 4th edition, under Seafarers Variant:

Quote:
You may move a knight (but not place a new knight) on an
intersection of sea hexes, if there is a line of ships to that
intersection. The knight ise considered to be on the ships.


Under these rules, the red knight is clearly illegal. The white knight might be illegal because it is an intersection of two sea hexes. The orange knight has only the one sea hex, so it might be legal.


I don't get the irritation. A new knight may be placed legally on any intersection that could be accessed with a road. If the connection is made with a ship, the location still remains legal. That does include hexes separated from the original sttlement by two sea hexes, too.

The rule should read "on an intersection of sea hexes or frame sea hexes only".
 
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Rob Singleton
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Erniepaul wrote:
From page 13 of Cities & Knights, 4th edition, under Seafarers Variant:

Quote:
You may move a knight (but not place a new knight) on an
intersection of sea hexes, if there is a line of ships to that
intersection. The knight is considered to be on the ships.




So, can an active knight displace the pirate ship then? I seem to have missed the rule about placing a knight at the junction of only sea hexes and actually never thought about doing it.
 
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Wilbert Kiemeneij
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This issue (the original issue in this thread) was clarified on the Encyclopaedia Catanica website that is currently still down. The explicit ruling that you cannot build a new knight at sea isn't in the German version of the rules. The clarification given by the official Catan representative was that effectively there's no difference between ships and roads, and between sea and land hexes. Knights can be built and moved everywhere.

The only exception would be a road and a ship that touch without a settlement or city in between them. A knight isn't able to cross such a spot. At least not in one turn, that is.

Unfortunately this clarification (and many others) haven't been copied to the FAQ at the catan.de website, and may be lost forever. I have a Dutch version of most of the clarifications, in my own wording, and with my own additions and notes (also, with links to the original sources, but since the Encyclopaedia is down that's not of much use currently).

And, on the topic of knights moving the pirate ship: yes they can.
 
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James Wolfpacker
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In every official online implementation of Catan that I have played the Orange and White initial placements were allowed because at least 1 of the 3 hexes were land. The red one was not.
 
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