Kevin B. Smith
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I'm surprised this question hasn't come up before. I looked through the BGG rules forum, and did a quick search over at Paizo, and looked at the S&S FAQ. I watched a game last night (I believe it was scenario B.1).

After defeating a hammerhead shark henchman, you may immediately attempt to close your location (per the henchman card). But after defeating a hammerhead shark henchman, it gets placed at the bottom of a random open location (per the scenario card). Which happens first?

Thinking logically, I would be inclined to (attempt to) close the location first, and then put the shark under a remaining open location. But when trying to follow the golden rule, I would do the scenario effect before the henchman effect, and thus would place the shark first, and then attempt the close.

During the game, closing first seemed like it would give players the advantage, but reflecting on it now, I see how it would be more advantageous to place the shark first.

After all the frustration and debate about ambiguities like this in RotR, I have to say I'm disappointed to have a big one in the very first S&S scenario. Unless of course I missed something, which is entirely possible.
 
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Andrew Warner
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Re: Hammerhead shark henchman timing question
It is very similar to Undead Uprising in RotR. Here is a post about that.

The attempt to close is "immediate." So attempt to close first, then put the Shark somewhere. (Which may include the possibility of the location you are at if you failed/chose not to close it.)
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Lars Enden
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Re: Hammerhead shark henchman timing question
I don't have the card handy, but I am pretty sure it says something like "a random other location." If I'm remembering right, then it doesn't actually matter whether you close the location first or choose the other open location first, since it is not possible for it to end up in the current location anyway.
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Kevin B. Smith
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Re: Hammerhead shark henchman timing question
Oh, and it was also ambiguous as to whether a summoned hammerhead should be placed under a location. I know that you ignore the "can close" text on summoned henchmen. And I know that summoned cards normally go back in the box after the encounter. But the scenario card (which takes precedence) says that any defeated hammerhead goes to the bottom of a location.

When trying to guide the first-timers, I was torn between following the instructions on the cards (which have been known to mislead me before), or doing what seemed to be the normal correct thing to do from a RotR perspective. Having growing schools of hammerheads sounded cool and thematic, but was that the intent?
 
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Kevin B. Smith
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Re: Hammerhead shark henchman timing question
brayle wrote:
I don't have the card handy, but I am pretty sure it says something like "a random other location." If I'm remembering right, then it doesn't actually matter whether you close the location first or choose the other open location first, since it is not possible for it to end up in the current location anyway.

Ah, I think you might be right.
 
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Lars Enden
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Re: Hammerhead shark henchman timing question
peakhope wrote:
Oh, and it was also ambiguous as to whether a summoned hammerhead should be placed under a location. I know that you ignore the "can close" text on summoned henchmen. And I know that summoned cards normally go back in the box after the encounter. But the scenario card (which takes precedence) says that any defeated hammerhead goes to the bottom of a location.

When trying to guide the first-timers, I was torn between following the instructions on the cards (which have been known to mislead me before), or doing what seemed to be the normal correct thing to do from a RotR perspective. Having growing schools of hammerheads sounded cool and thematic, but was that the intent?


This also came up in RotR (Them Ogres Aint Right). I had to start the whole adventure path over when I discovered I hadn't played that scenario correctly. I'm still a little miffed about that.

At the time, I questioned the scenario power in Them Ogres Aint Right quite a lot in these forums, and even all-but-demanded an official errata (but, alas, there has yet to be one). Here is what nearly everyone told me: "summoned henchmen NEVER go anywhere but back to the box, you dummy. So there is no reason for an errata in this case."

I found that quite annoying because the rules say (still) that summoned cards are banished unless you are instructed otherwise (page 14 of S&S rule book). The question is, then, is the scenario card "instructing otherwise" or not?

When I saw this on the very first scenario card for S&S, you can imagine the groaning and eye-rolling I did. "Here we go again!" I figured I would just keep my mouth shut this time, though, and just premuse that it is supposed to be played just like Them Ogres Aint Right, which means that summoned Hammerheads just get banished.

If that is wrong, I am going to eat my copy of the game!
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Re: Hammerhead shark henchman timing question
brayle wrote:
If that is wrong, I am going to eat my copy of the game!

Am I evil for hoping you're wrong, and will video the meal? devil
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Lars Enden
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peakhope wrote:
brayle wrote:
If that is wrong, I am going to eat my copy of the game!

Am I evil for hoping you're wrong, and will video the meal? devil


Maybe a little.
 
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Kevin B. Smith
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To wrap things up here, the S&S FAQ says:

Whoever wrote the FAQ wrote:
Resolution: On page 14 of the Skull & Shackles Rulebook, under Summoning and Adding Cards, change
"After evading a summoned card or resolving the encounter with it, banish it unless you’re instructed otherwise" to
"After evading a summoned card or resolving the encounter with it, never put it anywhere other than back in the box unless the card that caused you to summon it instructs you otherwise".

Thus, summoned hammerheads are put back in the box, because the scenario card that tells you to put them in a location is not the card that caused them to be summoned.

Congratulations Lars. You don't have to eat your game!

Reference: http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1gu#v5748eaic9sfn
 
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Lars Enden
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peakhope wrote:
To wrap things up here, the S&S FAQ says:

Whoever wrote the FAQ wrote:
Resolution: On page 14 of the Skull & Shackles Rulebook, under Summoning and Adding Cards, change
"After evading a summoned card or resolving the encounter with it, banish it unless you’re instructed otherwise" to
"After evading a summoned card or resolving the encounter with it, never put it anywhere other than back in the box unless the card that caused you to summon it instructs you otherwise".

Thus, summoned hammerheads are put back in the box, because the scenario card that tells you to put them in a location is not the card that caused them to be summoned.

Congratulations Lars. You don't have to eat your game!

Reference: http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1gu#v5748eaic9sfn


Thanks. It is about time they added that errata. I was very happy to see it.
 
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