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Subject: Space Hulk 4E could have been extra special rss

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VonMeister
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If Games Workshop had some respect for their own product, they could have done far better for this re-print/re-release (whichever you want to call it).
It would have been fan-freakin-tastic if they had worked out a Genestealer AI so the game could be played solo or cooperatively, but I'm guessing Space Hulk is just a kind of dalliance for them based on its nostalgia and history - and they don't have to go to any great effort to support it continuously because of its legendary reputation (with some HILARIOUS help from Robert Florence when 3E was released!).


Also, I saw a previous post about the models in 3E and the upcoming 4E. Yeah, they are great models but for gaming they aren't practical - especially in a game that depends on facing AND in tight quarters. Additionally, they constantly knock each other over as you move them on the board. If you aren't familiar with this and are thinking about this game, just check out the Watch It Played series Rodney did. You can see this happen a lot as they are playing.
Personally, it doesn't matter much to me because I have a prior edition with models that are in more neutral poses that I use on a set of the new boards from 3E that I picked up on eBay (I had purchased a set that someone had sold without the minis, so it was a pretty great deal to me).
But for new people exploring this game, I think they will find the dynamically-posed models really annoying (even though they are very cool).

I like that there are some new scenarios with a couple more in an issue of White Dwarf. It's almost reminiscent of the GW of old when I first discovered Space Hulk around '91 or so. That's refreshing, at least.

I reckon I'm min/maxing a bit, but I was hoping there would be more content in this re-release.


 
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John "Omega" Williams
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Yes. Was odd that they did not include the solo rules from 1st edition as they are still mostly compatible with 3rd.

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Brian M
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"Genestealers move toward the closest marine and attack, preferring routes without overwatch on it" isn't terribly clever, but it doesn't play all that badly.
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VonMeister
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Wow! Really? I don't recall what the solo rules are from SH1. I do vaguely recall a notation on the box about rules for solo play, but that didn't come with the SH2 edition. How do they work?
And more importantly, can they still be found online?

Thanks for bringing that to my attention!
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Mark
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VonMeister wrote:
Yeah, they are great models

Well said! You nailed it!
 
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Andrew Dale
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Frankly I see this re-release as a cynical cash-grab pure and simple.

GW never fail to show us how out of touch with their customers they are. By limiting the release in this way they just fuel the over-inflated ebay market all over again.
 
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VonMeister
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Well that may be, but for the time-being it has injected supply to satisfy the demand, so the prices have been dropping considerably. I saw some ending for around the same price as what GW is selling 4E for.
Anyone who bought it purely as an investment vehicle just collectively did a facepalm when 4E was announced with a few newer items in it, as it makes their "Limited Edition" version not as complete and desirable as the newest "Limited Edition" version.

I suppose any company who sells ANYthing could be accused of a cash-grab. Especially in hobbies like this.

Ah, the universe tends to balance...
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John "Omega" Williams
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The Deathwing expansion. Solo rules. Covered placement, how to handle ambush, and Genestealer movement.

Basically start with GS nearest a marine and beeline it towards the marine. But it will not move into LOS unless it can get an attack in. Otherwise it stops before that.

Neet and simple and works.

No rules for soloing as the GS though it appears.

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At least they could have pre-assembled the miniatures this time.
 
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VonMeister
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batanen wrote:
At least they could have pre-assembled the miniatures this time.

And painted?
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Jay Lacson
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VonMeister wrote:
batanen wrote:
At least they could have pre-assembled the miniatures this time.

And painted?
I would not want my copy to have that happen.
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StevenE Smooth Sailing...
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Yes, Space Hulk 4E could have been extra special... but it isn't this time... unfortunate.

Good for those who did not get it in 2009, enjoy.
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VonMeister
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Yep, that's the best part of this release. Getting more stuff, and paying a good deal less than 300 bucks for it.
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Michael
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VonMeister wrote:
Wow! Really? I don't recall what the solo rules are from SH1. I do vaguely recall a notation on the box about rules for solo play, but that didn't come with the SH2 edition. How do they work?
And more importantly, can they still be found online?

Thanks for bringing that to my attention!


I'v got them on pdf if anyone wants a copy.

cheerio
Mike
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Cracky McCracken
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Space Hulk: Death Angel – The Card Game is co-op. Play that for a co-op game and the real one for PvP.
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Mr. DasBoot
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LordHellfury wrote:
VonMeister wrote:
It would have been fan-freakin-tastic if they had worked out a Genestealer AI so the game could be played solo or cooperatively.

Ugh. Thank goodness they didn't. There is a reason why only one scenario was made for solo play (Cloud Runner's mission), and that reason is this is a confrontational game whose play depends on the variances the human mind can produce, which AI is but a fraction as compelling.

Nothing against games whose fundamental design is co-op/solo, but retroactively fitting such on a confrontational gamegenerally yields a poor experience.

You want such a game, then buy such a game. I'm getting so tired of reading stale complaints about a game not being able to be played solo/co-op, as if every game should be such.

Its like expecting, nay demanding, cats to bark or dogs to meow.

I agree about the models though. They are all flash, yet bear little pragmatism to actual game play and is a shame they took that route with the models. The terminators are more gaudy than a black velvet painting who had glitter and gold rope chains dumped all over it.

There just isn't enough changes that we know to this edition to really consider it a fourth edition. We'll know by the weekend for sure if it does.


Hmmm…..., Yes, they fall over – a lot, but I figure other models must fall over as well which is why there is a market for model bases.

To me, and my total inexperience with this kind of game, their attire seems correct for a small squad of marines with a history of once being used as a genestealer scrub brush to clean space hulk floors, walking into what they know is certain death for most of them.

I think I would dress up pretty flashy too, you know full military dress with ribbons, medals, medallions and all if I knew I was most likely going to die in my next mission to serve the emperor. May as well look good. cool


oh and a few extra prayer cloths can't hurt!
 
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Frank Franco
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BrotherDasBoot wrote:

To me, and my total inexperience with this kind of game, their attire seems correct for a small squad of marines with a history of once being used as a genestealer scrub brush to clean space hulk floors, walking into what they know is certain death for most of them.

From the bit I know of 40K the fluff of this game makes no sense.
It's close, cramped quaters agaist a fast enemy. So they send in terminators who are slow, bulky and their big advantage (their armor) is ineffective against the genestealers hands (how often does a termy survive a genesteler attack? Not often!)
But the big one that gets me is terminator armor is supposed to be this ancient, sacred thing which hasn't been made for centuries. It's valuable as. Yet based on the death rate of the average space hulk game they are losing this armor on ships where it can't be late retrieved at a phonominal rate. Why on earth wouldn't you just send normal cannon fodder soldiers on these missions?
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Michael
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Mr Skeletor wrote:
BrotherDasBoot wrote:

To me, and my total inexperience with this kind of game, their attire seems correct for a small squad of marines with a history of once being used as a genestealer scrub brush to clean space hulk floors, walking into what they know is certain death for most of them.

From the bit I know of 40K the fluff of this game makes no sense.
It's close, cramped quaters agaist a fast enemy. So they send in terminators who are slow, bulky and their big advantage (their armor) is ineffective against the genestealers hands (how often does a termy survive a genesteler attack? Not often!)
But the big one that gets me is terminator armor is supposed to be this ancient, sacred thing which hasn't been made for centuries. It's valuable as. Yet based on the death rate of the average space hulk game they are losing this armor on ships where it can't be late retrieved at a phonominal rate. Why on earth wouldn't you just send normal cannon fodder soldiers on these missions?

Thats why theres other rules for cannon fodder SM,IG in the 1st edition cmpaign book etc...
 
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Freelance Police
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VonMeister wrote:
Yep, that's the best part of this release. Getting more stuff, and paying a good deal less than 300 bucks for it.

That's close enough to "extra special" in GW's book! laugh

The price is high because of the miniature sculpt quality, market price for the equivalent miniatures sold separately, and their use in 40K. If you don't place any value on these aspects of the game, then see the other thread of other games that have better gameplay than SH.

As for "cash grab", I don't think the 40K players will agree. If you want SH on the cheap, Sedition Wars has similar minatures, more of them, and can be found for under $40. DIY tiles can be found on RPGNow for $22: http://www.rpgnow.com/product/120187/Starbase-Extreme-BUNDLE
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Mr. DasBoot
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I like the game.

I like the models.

I do not have any trouble determining which way they are facing.

I like the history behind the terminator armor itself.

Maybe the bling is not only to show honor to the squad or the battles they have won but it distracts the genestealers for a moment.

The stealer is like "Dang, WTF is that!" AAAH my EYEs!"

and then the next thing on the stealers mind is a round of lead from the terminators bolt gun.
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Slev Sleddeddan
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What part of "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" don't you understand?
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Mr Skeletor wrote:
From the bit I know of 40K the fluff of this game makes no sense.
It's close, cramped quaters agaist a fast enemy. So they send in terminators who are slow, bulky and their big advantage (their armor) is ineffective against the genestealers hands (how often does a termy survive a genesteler attack? Not often!)
But the big one that gets me is terminator armor is supposed to be this ancient, sacred thing which hasn't been made for centuries. It's valuable as. Yet based on the death rate of the average space hulk game they are losing this armor on ships where it can't be late retrieved at a phonominal rate. Why on earth wouldn't you just send normal cannon fodder soldiers on these missions?

Terminator Armour is designed for close-quarters boarding actions. It's the most effective armour they can use against 'Stealers , which will sometimes save their lives. Plus the other tactical systems on-board (like the Sensorium) provide them with vitl advantages that a normal Auspex won't provide.
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Mike Adachi
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batanen wrote:
At least they could have pre-assembled the miniatures this time.

Are you daft? Sorry to be confrontational, but that would alienate any WH40K and miniature fan to GW more than any other move they could make (and have made).

The main target for this game is, whatever you might think, not casual board gamers but collectors, miniature lovers and WH40K fans. If you want your marines pre-painted then you're better off with the Space Hulk: Death Angel game.
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Slev Sleddeddan
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What part of "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" don't you understand?
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Mikademus wrote:
batanen wrote:
At least they could have pre-assembled the miniatures this time.

Are you daft? Sorry to be confrontational, but that would alienate any WH40K and miniature fan to GW more than any other move they could make (and have made).

The main target for this game is, whatever you might think, not casual board gamers but collectors, miniature lovers and WH40K fans. If you want your marines pre-painted then you're better off with the Space Hulk: Death Angel game.

TBF, GW's market is so diverse in their wants & needs, with many mutually-exclusive sub-groups, that GW will always upset a significant portion of them.
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VonMeister
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LordHellfury wrote:

You want such a game, then buy such a game. I'm getting so tired of reading stale complaints about a game not being able to be played solo/co-op, as if every game should be such.

Its like expecting, nay demanding, cats to bark or dogs to meow.
It's actually not at all like that.

I don't disagree that an AI isn't as crafty as another player can be, but it's not unreasonable to desire such a thing as solo/co-op rules.
No biggie - I'll just check out the old ones that were referenced.

AND, if you're tired of reading posts "complaining" about games then man are you ever in the wrong place!

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VonMeister
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Yeah, I'd at least like to read them over and try them out. Could be helpful to use with my younger nephew - he's not real competitive and game losses turn him off and make him disinterested. The other nephew has no problem being competitive and trying to win.
I just like the game and want to be able to play it in as many ways possible so it hits the table often.

The card game (someone else mentioned) is okay, but I like boardgames more. Just a personal preference.

NOW - on to creating some 4E Geotiles....
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