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The Lord of the Ice Garden» Forums » General

Subject: So, is this the new Chaos in the Old World? rss

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Mark Turner
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CitOW is one of my all time favorites, and this game at first glance appears to share a similar approach.

There is a relative lack of reviews, however, and there appear to be some complaints about complexity.

How do the games compare? Will a fan of Chaos enjoy this game? Or is the comparison misleading?
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Steven R
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I'm also intrigued. I also own CITOW and my only issue is that it's not nearly as good a game with 3 players...but very good with 4.

Lord of the Ice Garden seems more complex which isn't a bad thing, but I've already heard issues with the rulebook, which is probably as much a 'translation' issue from Polish to English as anything.

I would like to add to my collection, but the price is looking a bit too much. It won't replace CITOW or El Grande, but if you like Area Control with multiple path to victory games, I think this will likely be a winner, especially if you like nice components.

I'm waiting for more reviews also...
 
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René Schep
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I'm going to check this out at Spiel (maybe pick it up), I'll inform you guys of my findings. Although it will be though for me to compare it to CitOW because I played that once.
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Magic Pink
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No, Cthulu Wars is the new CiTOW.
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Mark Turner
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Magic Pink wrote:
No, Cthulu Wars is the new CiTOW.


I'm looking forward to trying that sometime. It just all seemed over blown to me. 200 is a lot for a game you might rarely play.
 
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Andrés Santiago Pérez-Bergquist
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Magic Pink wrote:
No, Cthulu Wars is the new CiTOW.


Cthulhu Wars is superficially similar, but plays very differently in practice.

CitOW is very much about medium-to-long-term build-up and investment. It's a very Euro-feeling area-control core game, with an added layer of dice combat to provide a little randomness and lots of one-shot special powers.

Cthulhu Wars has much more of a dudes-on-a-map core game, with opportunities presenting themselves suddenly and requiring you to change your plans. The special powers are repeatable or ongoing effects that change how you have to view your opponents. While you still need a plan, it seems less likely to survive first contact with the enemy.

From reading the rulebook, it seems like LotIG hews much closer to CitOW, with the same basic framework of area-control-for-points with a custom faction-specific path to alternate victory. Given how much I love CitOW, I'm fairly excited about my copy arriving here soon…
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René Schep
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I think the main two differences between this and CitOW are:

-This has no luck at all, there are no dice or random cards, everything is player interaction.
-All the factions have a unique victory condition they can go for, where as in CitOW you are steared towards one of the win conditions if I'm correct.
 
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Łukasz 'farmer'
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Indeed LotIG is like CintOW.
But it's also much more than CintOW.
In good meaning of that phrase.

Main diferences:
In LotIG players have more options.
Powers in game aren't so specialized like those in Chaos (where Kohorne always plays on wheel, Nurgle always plays with points etc.)

LotIG is good with 4 players.
And with 3 players.
And with 2 players!
It's huge difference.

farmeriusz wrote:
I'm lucky to own this game.
Until now I played it only two times but from the beginning its obvious, that:

d10-1 Game is good. Really good.
First impression: Chaos in the Old World on heavy steroids mixed with El Grande and flavoured a little bit with Dominant Species.

d10-2 Game isn't too complex - in a good way. It's strange, becouse it sounds like it has tons of little paragraphs, rules and exceptions.
I think, it isn't more complex than Game of Thrones or Chaos.

d10-3 Game is amazingly fast for a game which tastes like this one.
With 3 ppl we played 1,5-2 hours.
Reports from others says about 2-3 hours with 4 players.
It's so full of decisions and tension, that after a first game I felt like after 3-4 hours of play. It was realy unexpected, when we realized that it took us only 2,5 hours from the beginning of explain the rules to the end scoring.

d10-4 It's (with one exception: initiative truck) easy and slighty fast (20 mins?) to explain, thanks to good iconography of actions on the board.

d10-5 Universum of Midgaard (from the book) is very well adopted into game.

d10-6 It seems, that game is balanced (every player have a chance, every win condition is in range). In Chaos (without expansion) Khorne always played on the Wheel, Nurgle always gathered points. In this game it isn's so obvious.

d10-7 Game looks really grest - especially with full package of minis.

d10-8 RuleBook... well, it isn't good.
It's not bad either, but it leaves some unanswered questions in specific (rare, but possibly) situations which may appear on the board.
We alredy have a FAQ in polish.
I'm sure, that answers from our FAQ will be included in rulebook to 2nd edition.


Unfortunately my english is too bad, to write you a review.
But I hope, that someone more talented do it for you .


yours,
farm
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Peter
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i played it yesterday. it feels like citow + dominant species.
You have the citow different factions with area control, but without the random fighting (there are no dice, pure strategy) and the worker placement + area control like in dominant species.

tried and buyed cause both games are in my top 10
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Mark Turner
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jocom wrote:
i played it yesterday. it feels like citow + dominant species.
You have the citow different factions with area control, but without the random fighting (there are no dice, pure strategy) and the worker placement + area control like in dominant species.

tried and buyed cause both games are in my top 10


How did you feel about the rules and complexity? Did it all make sense and hang together?
 
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Ahmad Siddiqi
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For the record, I haven't played but I found the rulebook pretty easy to understand. It sounds like some people got confused by how the rules are organized, although, since it is a short rulebook, I didn't really find this a problem. Also the names for different things can be a little counter-intuitive if - like me - you have not read the books (they give thematic descriptions at the beginning of the rulebook, but you might still find it confusing, e.g. that 'Voracious Mountain' is basically just a teleport action space). The section on initiative markers you have to read a couple of times to get the hang of. But that's about it.

It definitely felt on reading like it all hangs together. Complexity is subjective, but my impression is it wouldn't much heavier than a medium-weight euro (somewhere between Puerto Rico and Dungeon Lords, perhaps? Haven't played Chaos, so can't compare.) It looks like there's impressive scope for depth though, with alternate strategies and win conditions.
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Peter
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haven't read the rules yet. played it in essen and got it explained.
instabuy for me. the game itself is not more complex than citow. i would also rate it medium complex.
 
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René Schep
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After having played 3 turns at Essen. And 3 full games against my friends with 3 players. (no advanced rules yet)

I can say that the game isn't hard to pick up, it's just really easy to make mistakes that can cost you big time.
 
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Ruud
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Bit late to the party, but I'd say that Chaos is a better game than Lords of the Ice Garden, but that certainly does not make LotIG a bad game, I'd rank them fairly similar (like 8 versus 8.5). Ice Garden is less random, but also not as asymmetric as Chaos because victory conditions are a little more straight-forward and less steering towards a certain direction. Both games are fairly easy to pick-up and the pieces in both games are nice (maybe Ice Garden a little better).
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