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Subject: An interesting contract dispute over a baby rss

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J
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A lesbian couple engaged the services of a sperm bank but they didn't get what they asked for: [LINK]

The couple eventually decided on Donor #380, but when it came time to pull the sample, the sperm bank pulled Donor #330. The former was white, the latter black.

The business later realized the mistake when the lady was 5 months pregnant and refunded the couples money. It's two years later and the couple is now suing.

I think it's an obvious breach of contract, but it raises some difficult questions.
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Rusty McFisticuffs
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Man, I thought YouTube comments and RSP were the only places you could find people that stupid.
 
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Purely from a business perspective, the sperm bank of course messed up, delivering the wrong product.

But the other issues the couple seek to receive compensation for are plain ridiculous:
the article wrote:
She describes the difficulty of living with Payton in an all-white community, with its “stereotypical attitudes.” One of Cramblett’s uncles, for example, “speaks openly and derisively about people of color.” And she acknowledges her own limited cultural competence. (For instance, Mom has found it “stressful” to go into a “black neighborhood” in order to get Payton “a decent [hair]cut.”)

Sounds like she may have to sue her own society instead.
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Boaty McBoatface
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Simon Mueller wrote:
Purely from a business perspective, the sperm bank of course messed up, delivering the wrong product.

But the other issues the couple seek to receive compensation for are plain ridiculous:
the article wrote:
She describes the difficulty of living with Payton in an all-white community, with its “stereotypical attitudes.” One of Cramblett’s uncles, for example, “speaks openly and derisively about people of color.” And she acknowledges her own limited cultural competence. (For instance, Mom has found it “stressful” to go into a “black neighborhood” in order to get Payton “a decent [hair]cut.”)

Sounds like she may have to sue her own society instead.
Sounds like a made up compliant by people who have found having a kid not as much fun as they thought.

Also if the fee was refunded is the company libel for a contract that they (in effect) canceled?
 
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slatersteven wrote:
Also if the fee was refunded is the company libel for a contract that they (in effect) canceled?

It doesn't work that way. If I contract you to cut down a tree in my yard and the tree falls on my house. You can't just give me back the original fee and say 'we're square'. You would still be on the hook for the damages.
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Boaty McBoatface
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jmilum wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Also if the fee was refunded is the company libel for a contract that they (in effect) canceled?

It doesn't work that way. If I contract you to cut down a tree in my yard and the tree falls on my house. You can't just give me back the original fee and say 'we're square'. You would still be on the hook for the damages.
True, but this is two years latter (why did they not sue at teh time?) and if for expenses unrelated to their mistake. Moreover they had a healthy child (and one of them is the mother of it), the issue is over it's race.

Moreover we would need to know what the contract was (and if the breached it?). Indeed taking into account the above they provided what they were asked for, a healthy baby (with one of the women as it's mother).
 
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J
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No, actually they asked for one donor and received a different one.
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jmilum wrote:
No, actually they asked for one donor and received a different one.
Again this depends on what the contract says.
 
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Daniel Edwards
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Bah no kid needs a decent haircut at 2.
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jeremy cobert
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jmilum wrote:
A lesbian couple engaged the services of a sperm bank but they didn't get what they asked for


And they say romance is dead..... It's like a poorly written TV comedy. They should have just done it the old fashion way, with a turkey baster.
 
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I thought we had a thread on this already, but maybe I saw it on FB. This was the article I read. A large amount of their suit has to do with them struggling to adjust to having a biracial baby and how completely naive/clueless they are.

http://mic.com/articles/100242/white-mom-s-lawsuit-over-blac...

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Curious what damages the courts will decide apply here.
 
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Jythier wrote:
Curious what damages the courts will decide apply here.

Reading their complaint, the only thing that makes sense is for the time they spent choosing a donor, because obviously that time was wasted. They should be ashamed to have put the rest of it on paper.
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Agent J
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kuhrusty wrote:
Jythier wrote:
Curious what damages the courts will decide apply here.

Reading their complaint, the only thing that makes sense is for the time they spent choosing a donor, because obviously that time was wasted. They should be ashamed to have put the rest of it on paper.


Moving expenses to a location that is more mixed-race friendly makes sense too, doesn't it? If they had a white baby they could have stayed where they were with no problems. Since they have a mixed race baby, they're not particularly welcome where they are or where they go for haircuts, because it's a segregated area, and they need to move to a much more racially tolerant area in order to do well - which is no fault of their own.

The article tries to make the point that they're racist because they are treating their child different because she's black, but practically, she's mixed race and despite their acceptance of her that doesn't mean the community accepts her - nor does it mean the haircut place accepts them. So moving to a racially tolerant area is a good move but it is predicated upon the mistake the sperm bank made.
 
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Chad Ellis
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I know a handful of lesbian couples who have used a sperm donor. In each case the parents cared at least somewhat about having a donor who resembled the non-biological mother. I think the main reason was wanting to minimize any perception that one mother was "real" and the other "just" adoptive. The one heterosexual couple I know who used a sperm donor also wanted a donor who resembled the father. None of these were racial issues -- it involved things like hair color, or a Jewish non-biological mother wanting a donor with Jewish features.

Apart from that, in each case the couple spent a very long time choosing the donor.

Bottom line: while the courts may have good reason to rule that parents can't claim damages in a case like this, I think it's entirely reasonable that parents using a donor would care significantly about getting the donor they chose and would be very upset to learn that they'd gotten the wrong one. Racism is clearly a factor here but it isn't a necessary one.
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Chad_Ellis wrote:
I know a handful of lesbian couples who have used a sperm donor. In each case the parents cared at least somewhat about having a donor who resembled the non-biological mother. I think the main reason was wanting to minimize any perception that one mother was "real" and the other "just" adoptive. The one heterosexual couple I know who used a sperm donor also wanted a donor who resembled the father. None of these were racial issues -- it involved things like hair color, or a Jewish non-biological mother wanting a donor with Jewish features.

Apart from that, in each case the couple spent a very long time choosing the donor.

Bottom line: while the courts may have good reason to rule that parents can't claim damages in a case like this, I think it's entirely reasonable that parents using a donor would care significantly about getting the donor they chose and would be very upset to learn that they'd gotten the wrong one. Racism is clearly a factor here but it isn't a necessary one.


If they'd left out all stuff about the haircut and their terrible community and backwards family, I think their complaint would have been more sympathetic and, therefore, stronger.
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Simon Mueller wrote:

Sounds like she may have to sue her own society instead.


Yeah, I have to imagine her family and community (if they are as characterized) aren't exactly overly supportive of her lesbian pair up either.
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Jythier wrote:
Moving expenses to a location that is more mixed-race friendly makes sense too, doesn't it? If they had a white baby they could have stayed where they were with no problems.

No, and no they couldn't. Their baby was going to wet the bed, or pick her nose, or like trucks instead of dolls, or have a peanut allergy, or have two mommies--something which was going to make her ostracized by those so inclined. (Really? They're in a town which is going to mistreat a "mixed-race" baby while being cool with her parents being lesbians? Really?)

Jythier wrote:
Since they have a mixed race baby, they're not particularly welcome where they are or where they go for haircuts, because it's a segregated area, and they need to move to a much more racially tolerant area in order to do well - which is no fault of their own.

They're the ones who wanted to fucking live among [alleged] racists in the first place. This mixup isn't just justice; it's comedic justice.
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It's really easy to ignore racism when you're not the target. Have a mixed-race baby and suddenly you're the target.

Obviously they'd have to show some burden beyond what they experienced as a lesbian couple.
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kuhrusty wrote:
Jythier wrote:
Moving expenses to a location that is more mixed-race friendly makes sense too, doesn't it? If they had a white baby they could have stayed where they were with no problems.

No, and no they couldn't. Their baby was going to wet the bed, or pick her nose, or like trucks instead of dolls, or have a peanut allergy, or have two mommies--something which was going to make her ostracized by those so inclined. (Really? They're in a town which is going to mistreat a "mixed-race" baby while being cool with her parents being lesbians? Really?)



But they're still having those problems now, with new problems on top. That's how damages work. They only exist if there is something going on beyond what would have happened.
 
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The lady found out during the fifth month of pregnancy? Is abortion legal then? Wow, think of the shitstorm had she had an abortion because if brown skin.
 
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I find it sad that these women felt the need to enter this into the public record. Their child will one day be able to read this, and I can't imagine the kind of hurt that could bring to a child who discovers that parental love might not be so blind as they deserve.
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xilan wrote:
I find it sad that these women felt the need to enter this into the public record. Their child will one day be able to read this, and I can't imagine the kind of hurt that could bring to a child who discovers that parental love might not be so blind as they deserve.


Nothing a long conversation and a lifetime of loving relationship can't clear up. And if you look at this lawsuit and think, "Those parents don't love that child like they should" then you didn't look very hard. The entire purpose of wanting legal restitution is to change their environment so that their baby will be more comfortable with herself, and their environment will be more stable and accepting of their family the way it is.
 
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Jythier wrote:
kuhrusty wrote:
Their baby was going to wet the bed, or pick her nose, or like trucks instead of dolls, or have a peanut allergy, or have two mommies--something which was going to make her ostracized by those so inclined. (Really? They're in a town which is going to mistreat a "mixed-race" baby while being cool with her parents being lesbians? Really?)

But they're still having those problems now, with new problems on top. That's how damages work. They only exist if there is something going on beyond what would have happened.

Wha? "Oh, shit, not only were we not invited to ice cream because they're bigots, we also weren't invited to ice cream because they're bigots!"
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xilan wrote:
I find it sad that these women felt the need to enter this into the public record. Their child will one day be able to read this, and I can't imagine the kind of hurt that could bring to a child who discovers that parental love might not be so blind as they deserve.


The child is going to feel bad even if they hadn't because it's a wrongful birth suit. It's a lovely name. We should never have had you --- well, we should have A BABY, just not YOU.
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