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Subject: HR for Not Rolling Any Successes During Repeated Encounter Attempts rss

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Barry Miller
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How many times has this happened to you? You're attempting to roll a success while testing for the same encounter for which you failed to roll any successes during a previous turn... and you fail to roll any success again. Then you go back a third time and fail yet again! This is especially frustrating when you're rolling perhaps 3 or 4 dice for each attempt, and still fail to roll any success each time! (It's a REALLY important encounter)!

So what are your thoughts on this house rule?:

For each successive attempt in which the same investigator did not roll any successes for the SAME encounter, add +1 die.

EDIT: (Oct 18) I tweaked the wording in the above paragraphs for clarity.

Rationale: All of the investigators in the game have something going for them - IOW, they've got all their oars in the water, so to speak. Thusly it should be reasonable to assume that an investigator is going to LEARN FROM THEIR MISTAKES, and when attempting to succeed at the same task again, will be better prepared. This learned preparedness, or experience from failure, is represented by the extra die.

As the saying goes, "Doing the same thing over and over again while expecting different results is the definition of insanity." So why would we subject our investigators to rolling the same number of dice each time, for the same exact test? Let them prove that they've learned from their mistakes! Give them that extra die!



 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Re: HR for Repeated Encounter Attempts
It's worth waiting to see what the Focus mechanic from Mountains of Madness actually entails. It sounds like it will help out this situation a lot!
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Mark Bauer
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Re: HR for Repeated Encounter Attempts
what encounters are you talking about exactly? The only repeatable encounters I can think of are rumors and mysteries.
 
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Todd Williams
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Re: HR for Repeated Encounter Attempts
Quote:
"Doing the same thing over and over again while expecting different results is the definition of insanity."


New rule. Every time you fail the encounter lose 1 sanity in addition to any other penalties. Lose an additional sanity on each successive attempt.
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kai fai wong
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Re: HR for Repeated Encounter Attempts
i think the Mountains of Madness focus mean to help with the important encounter
 
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Barry Miller
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Re: HR for Repeated Encounter Attempts

Anduin wrote:
what encounters are you talking about exactly? The only repeatable encounters I can think of are rumors and mysteries.

Could be any encounter. And sometimes a Rumor Encounter wouldn't qualify. Some Rumor encounters require multiple successes in order to solve the mystery... in these cases, each success is considered a different encounter and thusly wouldn't qualify as it would be incorrect to consider them all as the same encounter.

For a failed encounter to qualify for this rule, it would have to be the exact same encounter for which you failed to roll ANY successes during a previous turn.

Let's use the monster 'Dark Young', a troublesome monster, as an example:
- On your first attempt at killing 'Dark Young', you don't roll any successes. Not rolling any successes qualifies you to add +1 die to your next attempt.
- On your second attempt (following turn), you fail yet again to roll any successes. This would earn you a 2nd +1 die (total +2) for your third attempt.
- Lets say for the next turn, you go off and do something else.
- But you later come back to 'Dark Young' for that third attempt. So now you roll +2 dice due to your previous failed rolls for this specific encounter, and this time you ROLL A SUCCESS! (Yes, odds are that you would've rolled a 5 or 6 during a previous attempt, but that's the point of this house rule... it thematically considers that experience at repeated attempts mitigates compounding improbable results).
HOWEVER, since you now rolled a success, this house rule NO LONGER applies on your next attempt to score the total number of wounds needed to kill the monster.
- 'Dark Young' needs 5 wounds to be killed and for this example let's say your last attempt just didn't get the job done. Although you failed your attempt to kill the monster, you didn't fail at rolling any successes, so this rule doesn't apply for your next attempt at this encounter.

Also, I went back to tweak the wording in my OP to make it clearer.



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Mark Bauer
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hmm... Then I still have to answer to this question:

bgm1961 wrote:

How many times has this happened to you? You're attempting to roll a success while testing for the same encounter for which you failed to roll any successes during a previous turn... and you fail to roll any success again. Then you go back a third time and fail yet again! This is especially frustrating when you're rolling perhaps 3 or 4 dice for each attempt, and still fail to roll any success each time! (It's a REALLY important encounter)!


not very often, as you have a different encounter every turn that more often than not tests different stats. This is true for all encounters except monsters, rumors and mysteries. And in case of monsters: Go somewhere else. If you are not able to throw successes in the combat encounters (you only need 1 anyways to do at least some damage) then your character is just not good enough to fight monsters. Leave them for other players and concentrate on your strengths.
If, however, you fail rolls again and again even though you have an acceptable dice pool: ce la vie. Sometimes the dice just hate us. Let them hate and try again
 
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Chris Hallett
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Don't need to house rule Eldritch, I seem to get a decent amount of successes and defeat the Old One 2 outta 5 games.
Seems a really well balanced game to me :)
 
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Barry Miller
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Anduin wrote:
How many times has this happened to you? ... If, however, you fail rolls again and again even though you have an acceptable dice pool: ce la vie.

Well, this happened to me during my 2nd game... I don't remember the exact encounter now, but it was needed in order to solve a mystery. For three turns in a row, I rolled four dice each turn... and for all three turns I didn't roll any "5"'s or "6"'s! I only needed two successes to beat the encounter, for heaven's sake!

So that's when I rationalized that no one who's got their act together (which describes each investigator in the game) would have such bad luck! Why? Because experience born by previous attempts would in reality, mitigate the bad luck. It's at that moment when I came up with the idea for this house rule.


Let's just say I'm attempting to normalize the "ce la vie" aspect!


 
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Mark Bauer
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okay. Would you mind tracking that encounter down? I may be mistaken, especially when it comes to mystery encounters, but I think there are no test rolls in this game where you need more than one success in order to pass it. And 4 dice... well, the odds are quite good for 1 success.
 
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Barry Miller
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Yeah, sure.. I dug it up... it was the, 'Stars Aligned' Mythos Rumor encounter. (I was mistaken with my recollection that it was a mystery). Anyway, 'Stars Aligned' has an ongoing Reckoning effect which advances the Omen by 1... and given the number of gates on the board at the time, would've hurt badly each time a Reckoning was called for. So I focused on solving the rumor.

You're right that I needed only one success, but as I described in my previous post, I tried for three turns, rolling four dice each turn, to solve that rumor and came up dry. So that's when I came up with the thought which I described in the bold font in my previous post.

Don't get me wrong.... I ultimately agree with your "c'est la vie" attitude. And still do. But this game is so hard as it is, I tried to come up with a little mitigator that makes sense and is grounded in reason. The fact that it's condition for use is rare, is besides the point.

Anyway, I'm not losing any sleep over this - it's not that big of a deal to me as my posts would otherwise suggest!


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Mark Bauer
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I understand. Just wanted to set the story straight
And I totally understand if people want to tweak their games according to their liking, because games are supposed to be fun, and they are yours after all.
I just wanted to warn from hasty decisions.
According to this page (the probabilities are the same for EH):
http://www.arkhamhorrorwiki.com/Base_Probabilities
the chance for having at least 1 success with 4 dice is 80% if you are not cursed. Rolling 3 times 4 dice is the same as rolling 12 dice. Having at least 1 success... well, the probability is 99%.
In my personal opinion here: I would only consider houseruling something if a flaw in the game comes through and you don't like it because it happens/could happen too often. But this seems a rather... rare occurrence
 
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Gabriel Conroy
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Darwin00uk wrote:
Don't need to house rule Eldritch, I seem to get a decent amount of successes and defeat the Old One 2 outta 5 games.
Seems a really well balanced game to me


That's great but this is the variants forum, where discussing house rules etc is kind of the idea!
 
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Stephen C
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I got a chance to play Mountains of Madness this past weekend. The Focus mechanic, I think, should help with this.

As an action, you can 'focus' which gains you a focus token. This token essentially works the same as a clue token, but without having to spend a clue token. You can re-roll one die during tests by spending a focus token. You can have up to two focus tokens at any given time.

Focus tokens are also rewards for some encounters.
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Thanks Stephen, that's quite helpful. Indeed, Focus tokens appear to be a great thing to do on your extra turn where you can't move away from your current spot but still want to do something useful. They have the effect that if you are in the same space for multiple turns, failing the same adventure, that you could essentially get extra dice for that roll.
 
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Barry Miller
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Well. guess I don't need that house rule after all! It seems that the new 'Focus' mechanic which Stephen talked about fits the bill, nicely!

Are there any other ways to gain Focus tokens besides the occasional reward for accomplishing an encounter?


 
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Chris J Davis
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bgm1961 wrote:


Well. guess I don't need that house rule after all! It seems that the new 'Focus' mechanic which Stephen talked about fits the bill, nicely!

Are there any other ways to gain Focus tokens besides the occasional reward for accomplishing an encounter?




As an action.
 
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Barry Miller
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Oh... just goes to show I need to be more careful when I read something... NOW I read the first three words in Stephen's paragraph where he says, "As an action..."!

Thx


 
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Fadhli Suib
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I use this HR instead

Blessing in disguise
For every 0 success that you roll put a blessing token on investigator.

Spend 2 blessing token and gain 1 clue
Spend 3 blessing token to take 1 additional action on action phase
spend 4 blessing token to consider the particular roll as success (does not work on epic monster)

I use eldritch token for this. Can use any token you have..

The above are for those who usually fails on their rolls. It'll be less "Amerithrash" IMHO. People can focus more on the strategy and can have less frustration on the bad rolls

Comments
- The idea behind this reduce the bad outcome from the unsuccessful rolls. Bad rolls=less efficient turn. This can help increase the success of the game but it does not make it easier. Planning is still important.
- Bad rolls can also be a commodity where one can strategize when to use the tokens. Should I spend the token to get clue to solve the mystery or should I take the extra turn to move faster or to gain more health or save it for the most difficult monster or this one very important encounter that I really need to ensure this rumor is closed?
- The tokens will not be plentiful also because you won't have bad rolls most of the time unless you're cursed.
- Bad rollers can also contribute to the game instead of pulling everybody down.
- The token cost for me is on the casual level, adjust as you see fit.


*additional clarification, 0 success here is after there's no more re-rolls done for that test and you can gain that token. Not for every unsuccessful dice (1,2,3,4). I hope the wording is clear.

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Barry Miller
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"Blessing in Disguise"

Hmmm... I LIKE it!


 
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