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Subject: How long will the app be support in future operating systems? rss

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Christian Gentges
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Hi,

I have played Alchemists at the Essen fair end enjoyed it very much. There is only one concern, which is very crucial in my decision to buy or not to buy it. I fear, there will be a year in the future, when the development of the app stops and it will not work on the then new OS, maybe in 5 years, maybe in 10 years.
So does anyone know, if there is a plan how long the game will be supported in future versions of the smartphone operating systems?
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Ori Avtalion
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I mentioned in another thread that it's very simple to implement the app with HTML and JavaScript. If ithe apps or web-app are no longer available, someone will take care of it.

Don't worry.
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Jim Cote
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Is there a public API?
 
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Nushura
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I am wondering what kind of answer you are expecting.

A promise from CGE to develop the app in any mainstream OS? What if the company goes bankrupt?

That they release the art for free in the hop that some fan makes an app? What if the interest of the game is gone?

Simply enjoy the game now, and if in 15-20 years we will play with one of my old smartphones that will be stashed within the box
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Ori Avtalion
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ekted wrote:
Is there a public API?

I'll try to explain it in a non-technical way, but let me just preface it by saying it's confusing to even think of it an API, because of point (2) below.

The web-app is developed in a client-server model, which means that if, for example, you wan to test a potion on yourself, your browser sends the two cards you want to mix to the server, and gets back an HTML page with the result.

This is kind of an API, however:
1) The server also seems to "remember" you, which means it remembers the 4-letter code used to randomize the game, and stores your identity in a cookie on the browser. An smarter API won't have to do that. It would be better to send the 4-letter code each time instead of wasting resources on the server.

2) It is pointless to even use an API. The rules tell you exactly what the app does, which can even be replaced by a "stupid" human - you randomize alchemicals for 8 ingredients, and allow a player to mix them in various ways (reveal the color+sign, reveal how good of a guess you made while selling, etc). It can be implemented entirely on the "client-side" (e.g. a browser) without requiring a server. I have no idea why the designer implemented it like that: Perhaps it's a technology they were familiar with.

The important take-away is:

DON'T PANIC.

This is a simple app to implement, even entirely in a web browser without internet connection - one that is available on all modern phones for the foreseeable 100 years and more. And I'm including the card scanning with the camera.
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M. S.
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Realy? snoreshake

How many of the games you already have do you expect to play in 10 years?

Is this realy how good a game has to be to buy it?

I mean I bought some games in Essen that I am already pretty sure I wont care that much about in 10 years. But isnt that normal? I am totally fine if I play my new purchased Last Will a dozen of times in the next months but in 10 years? Or let it be 5. Pheeeeeew until then there will be a looooooot of games that will pick my interest.

The funny thing is: You have fear that the app in 5 years doesnt run on any device? But you're ok with dumping your mobile phone/PC/Tablet until then and replace it with a new?
I guess if I want I could easily get 3-5 mobile phones from friends and family for free in the next 2 years becuase they would throw it away. In that case just ask if you can have the phone and store it in the box.

And again - even if you wouldnt have the chance to have the app available in 5 years - is 40 € too much for a game you have fun playing for the next 3 years? (assuming you like it and play it often in that time)

I realy dont get all these panic about apps and boardgames at all....
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David desJardins
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H4msterbacke wrote:
How many of the games you already have do you expect to play in 10 years?

Is this realy how good a game has to be to buy it?


It certainly is for me. I rarely would even try a game, much less buy it, if I don't think that there was a chance that it will be a favorite that I play hundreds of times. It doesn't sound like this is what you're looking for, but different people like different things---is this really news?

Quote:
I mean I bought some games in Essen that I am already pretty sure I wont care that much about in 10 years. But isnt that normal?


Yes, that's normal, but the other is normal too. The range of "normal" is very wide.
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Ori Avtalion
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DaviddesJ wrote:
I rarely would even try a game, much less buy it, if I don't think that there was a chance that it will be a favorite that I play hundreds of times.

Going off on a tangent: Would you pass on playing a game even once, if it's not that great and ever-green as a whole? It could offer a fresh experience, or explore existing ideas in a different light, even if it's not perfect.

How about games that have a limited amount of scenarios and include an element of surprise, such as Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective: The Thames Murders & Other Cases?
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Ahmad Siddiqi
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Such a good game, SHCD - well worth the purchase.

But yeah, as Ori is saying, this should be a non-issue. Everything the app does is known and is simple. I mean, with a little research I could code it, and my coding experience is limited to a few computer science classes (about a decade ago) and some messing around with the original Starcraft campaign editor.
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David desJardins
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SaltyHorse wrote:
Going off on a tangent: Would you pass on playing a game even once, if it's not that great and ever-green as a whole? It could offer a fresh experience, or explore existing ideas in a different light, even if it's not perfect.


Yes, there are examples of "rarely". Sometimes I'll play a game I know I won't even like at all, just because I think it will be interesting to try once. But those are the exception, not the rule.

Quote:
How about games that have a limited amount of scenarios and include an element of surprise, such as Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective: The Thames Murders & Other Cases?


Yeah, I basically never play games like that. I'm *way* more likely to play scenario-type games if the scenarios are randomly generated as often as you want, than if they are hand-constructed to tell some kind of story.
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DaviddesJ wrote:
I rarely would even try a game, much less buy it, if I don't think that there was a chance that it will be a favorite that I play hundreds of times.


And the fact that Alchemistst needs an app takes this chance to zero? ....Realy don't think that if you buy the game today, you can not get a solution in 10 years to play it again.

(Despite the fact that I think if you have fun playing the game a few years you already got your money's worth back...)

 
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David desJardins
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H4msterbacke wrote:
And the fact that Alchemistst needs an app takes this chance to zero?


No, where did you get that idea? It's trivial to replace the app for Alchemists, so it's a non-issue for this game.
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Aneurin Kennerley
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Anyone worked out how many permutations there actually are? Could it all be implemented in a giant look-up-table for use when the old smart phone battery runs out...
 
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Ori Avtalion
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Twilight Geek wrote:
Anyone worked out how many permutations there actually are? Could it all be implemented in a giant look-up-table for use when the old smart phone battery runs out...

There are 8! = 40,320 possible permutations of ingredients to alchemicals.

Since the app uses a 4-letter code, assuming it uses A-Z, it can generate 26^4 = 456,976 sequences.

If you're asking how the 4-letter code maps to a particular sequence, I don't know, but it can be done in many ways.

You don't want to print out a lookup table
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Aneurin Kennerley
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SaltyHorse wrote:
Twilight Geek wrote:
Anyone worked out how many permutations there actually are? Could it all be implemented in a giant look-up-table for use when the old smart phone battery runs out...

There are 8! = 40,320 possible permutations of ingredients to alchemicals.



Is it not order independent? i.e. 1 & 8 is the same as 8 & 1?
 
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Ori Avtalion
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Twilight Geek wrote:
Is it not order independent? i.e. 1 & 8 is the same as 8 & 1?

No. Assume all ingredients are lined up in a row place, and you try to match the alchemicals to them.

Matching the alchemical +++ to the first ingredient is different than matching the alchemical +++ to the last ingredient.
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Alexander Lauck
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You can always replace the app, but maybe sometimes a game needs an app that can't be replaced that easy. But with alchemists (a very good game btw.) there shouldn't be a problem.
We tried the x-com beta, that's harder to replace (but far away from being impossible) so no problem there, too.
 
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Bruce Harlick
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They include a way to run the randomization without any apps or web pages, but it requires a human game master to moderate it. With that, though, they've future-proofed the game quite nicely. You'll be able to play it 10 years from now, even after the current Android and Apple mobile OSes are no longer functioning.

-Bruce
----
Bruce Harlick,
Game Designer, Bon Vivant, and Super-Villain.
 
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Joseph Courtight
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Besides what the apps does isn't that complex. Given an hour or so and a few images a talented programmer could whip up a new one pretty easily.
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Karl
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Dalek5 wrote:
Besides what the apps does isn't that complex. Given an hour or so and a few images a talented programmer could whip up a new one pretty easily.


That. It would be very easy to replicate the app one way or another. It would also be be possible to completely replace the app with a physical gadget as long as someone would properly set it up that would not play (this is different then the current thing included as here that referee would have to remain nearby. It would however be easy to construct a device that would only need a referee at startup).
 
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