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Subject: Thoughts (a rant actually) on Video Reviews/Walkthroughs rss

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Driver 8
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Like many others, I'm don't have the time (too lazy) to read long game reviews and scour through component pictures. I also like to see a game before I purchase it, so I have an idea what I'm getting into beforehand. Enter video reviewers/walkthroughers. THANK YOU for all the work that you do. I have no such skills (to my knowledge) and I probably couldn't do the work you do.

But now, a pet peeve.

It pains me to watch a rules explanation or walkthrough that is annotated multiple times with rules corrections. I don't know how difficult it is to edit video, but I would think that one could record 10 minutes (or a turn or two), and then stop, review that section for errors, and re-record that section if necessary.

During our game nights, if we play through a game and realize that a mistake has been made part way through the game, we say that that game has been "asterisked" and it's a frustrating occurrence that the final outcome is skewed. But to have the ability to alter a recording, yet be content with mistakes is even more frustrating to me.

Let me say, I thoroughly appreciate and admire those who take the effort to record and upload such videos. I'm sure it takes a lot of time, but if I may humbly ask, please take a few more minutes before uploading to check for errors.

Commence flame war.
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Curt Carpenter
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Driver 8 wrote:
I don't know how difficult it is to edit video, but I would think that one could record 10 minutes (or a turn or two), and then stop, review that section for errors, and re-record that section if necessary.

The errors are likely discovered much later. Like when someone watching the video points them out to you. People aren't getting rich making these videos. It's not worth their time to go back and edit.
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Driver 8
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I suppose that the term "good enough" is a subjective one.
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Thomas Leitner
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There is no guarantee, implied or otherwise, that a reviewer or video demonstrator will get the rules right. Their goal is generally to provide an idea of game flow and sometimes an opinion.

If you like what you see, and want to play the game, it's still your responsibility to grab the rulebook and read, or learn from someone who has.
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C Bazler
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Let me get this straight. You're too lazy and don't have time to read reviews/look at pictures, so you're asking other people to take multiple takes of video (multiple hours of their time) just so you don't have to read their annotations after they have corrected errors in their videos? Am I seriously reading this right?
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Driver 8
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cbazler wrote:
Let me get this straight. You're too lazy and don't have time to read reviews/look at pictures, so you're asking other people to take multiple takes of video (multiple hours of their time) just so you don't have to read their annotations after they have corrected errors in their videos? Am I seriously reading this right?


Here's what I'm saying...if someone does a walkthrough of a game, and makes a mistake in the first 5 minutes that skews the results of the rest of the game, but they still post it with a note that say "Oops", then why bother post the thing in the first place?

During our game nights, I'm the gamer who brings all the games and explains the rules. The expectations on me are high and if I make a mistake leaving out a rule or mixing something up, I hear about it for weeks. We still talk about The Speicherstadt. Some loved the game but after the first time we played it and I made an error in the deck construction (which altered the end game), no one has wanted to play it again. Bad first impressions lead to games not getting played where I play. And that's only among a half dozen gamers. I'd be paranoid to post something for thousands of gamers online to see. But maybe the expectations are lower where you come from.
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C Bazler
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Driver 8 wrote:
Here's what I'm saying...if someone does a walkthrough of a game, and makes a mistake in the first 5 minutes that skews the results of the rest of the game, but they still post it with a note that say "Oops", then why bother post the thing in the first place?


Presumably they still post it because it is a demo of the gameplay rather than an actual game. Are you actually worried about the outcome of the fake game they are playing with an imaginary opponent?

I'd say reviewers are being very kind and generous with their time if they do go back and edit their videos to clarify mistakes. All too often you see errors in videos that are never corrected, or are only acknowledged in the comments below.
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Matt Kruczek
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If it's less work for them to fix or amend the video than it is for you to check the rules yourself, then you may have a point.

However I am almost entirely sure this is not the case.
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Driver 8
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Suppose a designer/publisher comes up with a Kickstarter campaign for his previously BGG-submitted game and a reviewer creates an unsolicited video. If the video presents the game incorrectly because he didn't take the time to get it correct, does the designer/publisher have a right to be upset about how his game is portrayed? I'd be pissed.
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Paddy Bourbon

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Driver 8 wrote:

Here's what I'm saying...if someone does a walkthrough of a game, and makes a mistake in the first 5 minutes that skews the results of the rest of the game, but they still post it with a note that say "Oops", then why bother post the thing in the first place?


What does the result matter? If you are trying to learn the game, what's the difference between noting the rule mistake and re-shooting without the mistake? The result is the same - you learn the rule. Your pet peeves are irrelevant.
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Driver 8
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mightypaco1 wrote:
Driver 8 wrote:

Here's what I'm saying...if someone does a walkthrough of a game, and makes a mistake in the first 5 minutes that skews the results of the rest of the game, but they still post it with a note that say "Oops", then why bother post the thing in the first place?


What does the result matter? If you are trying to learn the game, what's the difference between noting the rule mistake and re-shooting without the mistake? The result is the same - you learn the rule. Your pet peeves are irrelevant.


Ever read a rulebook that comes with a separate errata page?
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Kevin "Coop" Cooper
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Driver 8 wrote:
Here's what I'm saying...if someone does a walkthrough of a game, and makes a mistake in the first 5 minutes that skews the results of the rest of the game, but they still post it with a note that say "Oops", then why bother post the thing in the first place?


Because it is still informative.

Driver 8 wrote:
During our game nights, I'm the gamer who brings all the games and explains the rules. The expectations on me are high and if I make a mistake leaving out a rule or mixing something up, I hear about it for weeks. We still talk about The Speicherstadt. Some loved the game but after the first time we played it and I made an error in the deck construction (which altered the end game), no one has wanted to play it again. Bad first impressions lead to games not getting played where I play. And that's only among a half dozen gamers. I'd be paranoid to post something for thousands of gamers online to see. But maybe the expectations are lower where you come from.


Expectations are definitely lower with pretty much anyone I have ever games with. If I had to be the rules guy with the group you are playing with I am pretty sure they would be looking for a new rules guy. With the complexity of the games we play, getting it perfect the first time is asking too much. The first game should definitely be a learning game, then you reread the rules, make note of what you messed up and fix it next time.
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Bill Solt
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I have seen many people make mistakes in videos. Even the great Wil Wheaton has made errors in gameplay. But normally, any errors are so minor that they would not affect my decision to buy the game. I know that lots of time people just don't have the editing resources or time. I would love to do walkthroughs of expansions. Something that I feel is really missing for some games. But all I have is an iPhone and an idea. Maybe I should start a kickstarter...hmmmm.
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Driver 8
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coopasonic wrote:
If I had to be the rules guy with the group you are playing with I am pretty sure they would be looking for a new rules guy. With the complexity of the games we play, getting it perfect the first time is asking too much. The first game should definitely be a learning game, then you reread the rules, make note of what you messed up and fix it next time.


Haha, thanks, I'll tell them that next time.
 
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Thom0909
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I love it when people add text boxes to videos to point out mistakes or overlooked information. It beats the most likely alternatives, which are not to do anything, or perhaps put a note well below in the comment thread.
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Driver 8
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JimbobJones wrote:
Driver 8 wrote:
I suppose that the term "good enough" is a subjective one.


Entitled much?

This whole thread is one of the most absurd things I've ever read. "You're providing this free service to people, but I don't think you're doing it well enough."

How about you do some video reviews? Make sure they're perfect, though.


I should send you a link of the butchered one I just sat through and let you decide if I'm over-reacting. I don't want to name any names.
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Chris Wilczewski
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Driver 8 wrote:
Suppose a designer/publisher comes up with a Kickstarter campaign for his previously BGG-submitted game and a reviewer creates an unsolicited video. If the video presents the game incorrectly because he didn't take the time to get it correct, does the designer/publisher have a right to be upset about how his game is portrayed? I'd be pissed.

I recommend you do a video review of a game. Before you offer suggestions to improve the process, perhaps you should experience it firsthand.
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Driver 8 wrote:
mightypaco1 wrote:
Driver 8 wrote:

Here's what I'm saying...if someone does a walkthrough of a game, and makes a mistake in the first 5 minutes that skews the results of the rest of the game, but they still post it with a note that say "Oops", then why bother post the thing in the first place?


What does the result matter? If you are trying to learn the game, what's the difference between noting the rule mistake and re-shooting without the mistake? The result is the same - you learn the rule. Your pet peeves are irrelevant.


Ever read a rulebook that comes with a separate errata page?

I have, and it's annoying. But it also gets the job done. And it's a lot more sensible than the game company issuing a recall of all the already-printed rulebooks so they can be replaced.

In this hypothetical situation where the reviewer does a walkthrough of the game but makes an error in the first five minutes that affects the outcome, what would you say is the best response? Should the reviewer delete the uploaded video, play and record another game, render the new video, and release it in a new update?
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Chris Wilczewski
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Driver 8 wrote:
cbazler wrote:
Let me get this straight. You're too lazy and don't have time to read reviews/look at pictures, so you're asking other people to take multiple takes of video (multiple hours of their time) just so you don't have to read their annotations after they have corrected errors in their videos? Am I seriously reading this right?


Here's what I'm saying...if someone does a walkthrough of a game, and makes a mistake in the first 5 minutes that skews the results of the rest of the game, but they still post it with a note that say "Oops", then why bother post the thing in the first place?

During our game nights, I'm the gamer who brings all the games and explains the rules. The expectations on me are high and if I make a mistake leaving out a rule or mixing something up, I hear about it for weeks. We still talk about The Speicherstadt. Some loved the game but after the first time we played it and I made an error in the deck construction (which altered the end game), no one has wanted to play it again. Bad first impressions lead to games not getting played where I play. And that's only among a half dozen gamers. I'd be paranoid to post something for thousands of gamers online to see. But maybe the expectations are lower where you come from.


The next time your group gives you crap for spending your time learning the game and teaching it to them, read this script to them:

"Ok everyone, I'm going to cover all the rules I can remember right now, which will cover 95% of the game. This is a learning game, so I'll probably have an advantage, so no bragging rights for me. You'll probably get the rug yanked out from under you at least once, and we'll have to stop during the game for more rules sometimes. BUT then we can start much quicker." [Picks up rules from box] "If anyone would like, they are welcome to read the rules while the rest of us play a learning game. If we play a second game, the rules-readers are welcome to join in."
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Matt Brown
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My guess is people doing the videos may have had only a few plays of the game and then shot the video. I highly doubt they are doing 5-10 plays of a game and then doing a video for it.
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Driver 8
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I wanted to point out a few of my favorite reviewers. We're all human and mistakes happen, but I've noticed on a few occasions that they have caught errors, and correctly them seamlessly during gameplay. Very good job editing and commentating all around. I can't say enough about how impressed I have been with their work. They deserve to be paid for it! If you haven't seen their work, check it out.

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Pete Goch
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Take a break Driver 8, Driver 8 take a break. We've been on this shift too long.
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Joe Salamone
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I don't rely on videos to teach me game rules. I watch videos to get a good enough idea of the game to decide whether I should buy it (or at least add it to my wish list). Once the game arrives, I read the rule book and also check BGG for errata, FAQ, and rules discussions. For me, videos are just introductory material. So, I don't mind if they aren't 100% accurate.

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Driver 8
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I totally agree on using video walkthroughs as merely an impression, rather than to teach me the rules. Again, I usually only watch videos before I buy a game to see what I think of it. The good videos usually hook me (goodbye money) while the not so good ones frustrate me. Like I said, I'm just ranting.
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I'm surprised designers/publishers don't automatically do a walk-through/rules explanation video with every game they produce. Seems like a no-brainer.
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