Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
11 Posts

Archipelago» Forums » Rules

Subject: Forgetting to announce end game rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Dim Day
msg tools
mb
Hi everyone, just got the game and am loving it. I just have one question.

The rules say that the game can end once the end-of-game condition on any of the secret objective cards is achieved. What would happen say I did not notice that my secret end-game-condition was met; so play continued for a few more turns until someone else's end-game-condition was achieved?

Upon discovering that my end-game-condition should have triggered earlier, do we rewind the game back to when my condition was supposed to have triggered and then score? Or is it that as long as no one has announced end-game even if their secret condition has been met, the game is still valid and continues.

edit: grammar
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Murr Rockstroh
United States
Fleming Island
Florida
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Without going and getting out the rulebook, at our table, I'd say play it the second way, don't rewind the game. Just score it out, but try not to do it intentionally.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jorgen Peddersen
Australia
Sydney
New South Wales
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
For the first few games, it might be worth someone asking if endgame conditions have been met at the end of each turn. It'll serve as a reminder for people to keep checking for those, as it is easy to forget sometimes.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
woosh ito
Brazil
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yeah, it sucks when that happens...

From my experience with Archipelago, I've decided it's not worth to play a 2h game if the end-game conditions are going to be messed up. So the solution that I came up with was to always keep track of all end-game conditions during the game. Whenever one of them is met, I make an announcement for all the players, for example, "Ok guys, the bank just ran out of money, if anyone has that end game condition, let us know".

It's working fine so far.
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Bradshaw
United Kingdom
Newcastle Upon Tyne
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
woosh_ito wrote:
always keep track of all end-game conditions during the game. Whenever one of them is met, ... make an announcement for all the players,


This is the obvious way to get round the problem. There are reference sheets in the files section which would enable players to easily track this information.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dan Regs
United States
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I tend to (try) to point out when various possible end-game conditions either have just occurred or are about to occur. Keeps the group on top of things to a certain extent.

Side effect: There is more shared knowledge of possible VP conditions (left) in the game as it progresses. - I find this an acceptable trade off.

In the event that an end-game condition is missed, and assuming a back-up is too complex (likely) I would simply let the game play stand and score it as is.

If there were only a 2-3 action-discs worth of stuff to back-up through, I'd try to take back those actions.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pat Connolly
United States
Zephyrhills
Florida
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I like the idea of an end-of-turn check for end-of-game condition protocol, once you get to where that's conceivable.
Also like the idea of tracking the various possible EOG conditions and announcing at the end of a turn how close the game is to each of them.

But if it should happen that an EOG is missed, you can't really rewind un less somebody has a perfect memory of game conditions. Just end the game once an EOG is noticed.

You have to hope that the mistake was unintentional and not to gain a competitive advantage by using the extra turns to achieve a better VP position by building a few extra churches, etc. If you're playing with someone who would do that you need to rethink your gaming partners. If you were playing with people you didn't know and scores were that important to you, say in a tournament, an appropriate punishment would be that (1) the missed EOG condition cannot be 'discovered' later to end the game and (2) the offending player cannot gain VP from any trend cards known to him, but everyone else still can.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pat Connolly
United States
Zephyrhills
Florida
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
dream_rpg wrote:
Side effect: There is more shared knowledge of possible VP conditions (left) in the game as it progresses. - I find this an acceptable trade off.

I never really thought of this, but it's not really a consequence of your suggestion, which I really like.

Anyone who knows which VP conditions go with which EOG conditions is probably already mentally reviewing which EOGs haven't been invoked when they were met, and thus which VP conditions won't be scored at the end. "Hmm, nobody called 'game over' when the iron ran out, so controlling churches (or whatever) won't matter for scoring, so I won't worry about that one anymore." Great if you can do it. But, seriously? This is a game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonathan Challis
United Kingdom
Hungerford
West Berkshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
patcon wrote:

Anyone who knows which VP conditions go with which EOG conditions is probably already mentally reviewing which EOGs haven't been invoked when they were met, and thus which VP conditions won't be scored at the end. "Hmm, nobody called 'game over' when the iron ran out, so controlling churches (or whatever) won't matter for scoring, so I won't worry about that one anymore." Great if you can do it. But, seriously? This is a game.


Umm... we DO do that... that very much IS the game...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Fabrice Wiels
Belgium
Chatelet
Unspecified
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
dimday wrote:
Hi everyone, just got the game and am loving it. I just have one question.

The rules say that the game can end once the end-of-game condition on any of the secret objective cards is achieved. What would happen say I did not notice that my secret end-game-condition was met; so play continued for a few more turns until someone else's end-game-condition was achieved?

Upon discovering that my end-game-condition should have triggered earlier, do we rewind the game back to when my condition was supposed to have triggered and then score? Or is it that as long as no one has announced end-game even if their secret condition has been met, the game is still valid and continues.

edit: grammar


Well, the games should end when the condition is met, and not after that. Doing otherwise is cheating.

If you announce the end of the game too late, my house rule goes like this :

- The faulty player scores 0 points.
- All the other players score points normally.

This ensures that players won't "forget" their end condition on purpose...

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Fabrice Wiels
Belgium
Chatelet
Unspecified
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Kelanen wrote:
patcon wrote:

Anyone who knows which VP conditions go with which EOG conditions is probably already mentally reviewing which EOGs haven't been invoked when they were met, and thus which VP conditions won't be scored at the end. "Hmm, nobody called 'game over' when the iron ran out, so controlling churches (or whatever) won't matter for scoring, so I won't worry about that one anymore." Great if you can do it. But, seriously? This is a game.


Umm... we DO do that... that very much IS the game...


Yep. Another way to ensure that nobody forget EOG conditions is to remind when one condition is met, even if it is not yours.

Like this :

"OK guys, there are 5 churches in play, so if someone has that EOG card, he should reveal is now. Nobody ? OK, we can go on."

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.