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Subject: Civbots actions rss

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Christian Bou Farhat
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Hello,

1) Some of the action cards of civbots have 2 actions on them. How does that work ? you do both actions ? if yes do you get 2 victory points as well ?



2) if a civbot canot improve technology, he should improve military instead. Does he get the victory point also ?


3) the expansion action for civbots are kinds unclear in the rules book : "Expansions are performed to an available territory
with the highest territory number. A territory is
available if it is empty or occupied by civilization
with a lower Military level. If there are no available
territories, the Civbot expands into the territory
with the highest territory number."


4) can the wonder row be empty ? if yes, does a civbot get victory point even if he doesnt take a wonder card ?

5) what happens when there is no more cards in the wonder era deck ?

thank you
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fabrice prin
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Hello,

1) I think that it doesn't matter which action you play first, personally I play from top to bottom, but it doesn't seems to change anything.

2) In the french rules there's nothing about winning the VP if the Civbot plays the military advance instead of the technology. And the way the rules are written it seemed obvious to me that the Civbot doesn't score VP.

3) It's not clear but all is there. You search a territory with the highest number and the Civbot go there. If there's a civilization in it you check if his military is lower than the Civbot you play. If yes you go. If no you check another territory adjacent too etc etc...

And if no territory is possible you simply enter the Civbot in the highest one, even if there's another civilization with even or greater military.

I think I'm less clear than the rules

I will add that, if one or more Civbot are in USA or south America there's less territory available. In this case, but I'm not sure, you will have sometime to wait the navigation discovery for that Civbot, and will not be able to play a move in this case.

4) Again in the french rules it's well indicated that if the Wonders row is empty the Civbot doesn't win a VP.

5) The deck can't be empty.

Hope that helps, but an official answer would be appreciated too

Fabrice
 
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Ian St. John
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1) It can very well matter in which sequence you resolve the actions. For the expand/war-action it's reasonable to first expand and then go to war since the expansion is likely to open up a new target for war. I believe that you are always supposed to resolve the top action first. For the science/military action the bot doesn't score VP because the VP are not part of the action card. So a bot can research/+vp, military/+vp or research/military.


2) I see no reason not give the civbot its VP if it gains military instead of research or vice versa.


3) Civbot expansion: Search the territory with the highest number that the civbot could expand to (adjacent if pre-navigation). Is it unoccupied or has a civ with less military? Then go there. If not, check the next one. If you can't find a viable location with this algorithm e.g. even the territory with the lowest number has a civ with equal or higher military, then just expand into the territory you checked first (the one with the highest number which was invalid because it had a strong civ present).

4) The wonder row can be empty. A careful reading of the german and the english rules doesn't suggest that the civbot has to actually get a wonder in order to score its VP. So they won't eliminate a wonder but still get a VP.

5) The wonder era deck can become empty if you are playing single player and therefore play without the invalidated wonders and you interpret the rules in the way that civbots count for determining the amount of wonders in play e.g. you play your solo game with 5 civbots and lay out 8 wonders. I don't believe this is the right way to handle it but the rules are not explicit about it.
In that case you'd just lay out the remaining wonders of the era when refreshing them at the start of the era's second half.
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Christian Bou Farhat
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fagasha wrote:
Hello,

1) I think that it doesn't matter which action you play first, personally I play from top to bottom, but it doesn't seems to change anything.

2) In the french rules there's nothing about winning the VP if the Civbot plays the military advance instead of the technology. And the way the rules are written it seemed obvious to me that the Civbot doesn't score VP.

3) It's not clear but all is there. You search a territory with the highest number and the Civbot go there. If there's a civilization in it you check if his military is lower than the Civbot you play. If yes you go. If no you check another territory adjacent too etc etc...

And if no territory is possible you simply enter the Civbot in the highest one, even if there's another civilization with even or greater military.

I think I'm less clear than the rules

I will add that, if one or more Civbot are in USA or south America there's less territory available. In this case, but I'm not sure, you will have sometime to wait the navigation discovery for that Civbot, and will not be able to play a move in this case.

4) Again in the french rules it's well indicated that if the Wonders row is empty the Civbot doesn't win a VP.

5) The deck can't be empty.

Hope that helps, but an official answer would be appreciated too

Fabrice


Thank you for your answer but i guess the french rules are outdated... the french rules still says to score VP when placing the first cube on the Map. This was changed in the last english rules and i have a confirmation mail from the author.

Concerning the Wonder deck, it can be empty if playing Solo.

Concerning the Art action for civ bots the english and french rules are different. The english rules says to get a wonder if available and then score 1 VP while the french rules says if there is no wonder the action doesnt take place...which is by the way the same in the old english rulebook.


Loanstar wrote:
1) It can very well matter in which sequence you resolve the actions. For the expand/war-action it's reasonable to first expand and then go to war since the expansion is likely to open up a new target for war. I believe that you are always supposed to resolve the top action first. For the science/military action the bot doesn't score VP because the VP are not part of the action card. So a bot can research/+vp, military/+vp or research/military.


2) I see no reason not give the civbot its VP if it gains military instead of research or vice versa.


3) Civbot expansion: Search the territory with the highest number that the civbot could expand to (adjacent if pre-navigation). Is it unoccupied or has a civ with less military? Then go there. If not, check the next one. If you can't find a viable location with this algorithm e.g. even the territory with the lowest number has a civ with equal or higher military, then just expand into the territory you checked first (the one with the highest number which was invalid because it had a strong civ present).

4) The wonder row can be empty. A careful reading of the german and the english rules doesn't suggest that the civbot has to actually get a wonder in order to score its VP. So they won't eliminate a wonder but still get a VP.

5) The wonder era deck can become empty if you are playing single player and therefore play without the invalidated wonders and you interpret the rules in the way that civbots count for determining the amount of wonders in play e.g. you play your solo game with 5 civbots and lay out 8 wonders. I don't believe this is the right way to handle it but the rules are not explicit about it.
In that case you'd just lay out the remaining wonders of the era when refreshing them at the start of the era's second half.


Thank you for your answers but i still did not get the last point (empty wonder row)
 
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fabrice prin
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Ah ok ! Thanks a lot Ian and Christian

I understand better. I've downloaded the english rules and yes it's different regarding VP and wonders, as well for earning points before the game begins by placing cubes on the map... I will correct on my french outdated version which came with the box.





 
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black dog
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No kidding ! The french version in the box is outdated !
I think I'm gonna wait before buying that game...
 
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fabrice prin
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yves_bgg wrote:
No kidding ! The french version in the box is outdated !
I think I'm gonna wait before buying that game...


Or download the english rules
 
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mobydick
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christizzz wrote:

Thank you for your answer but i guess the french rules are outdated... the french rules still says to score VP when placing the first cube on the Map.


i don't think you can go as far as saying that the 'french rules are outdated'. the point you mention is indeed a small error that i mentioned some time ago to the french editor of the game (Gigamic). but knowing their constant effort at providing the best rules, i would rather say that this small error reflects a lack of communication from the lead editor.

as a matter of fact, this point was one of the last changes brought to the rules. and even Paul Grogan, in charge of the english rulebook translation, was apparently, and surprisingly, not aware of these changes. so in such a context, one can easily imagine how small errors can creep in the various translations of the rulebook.
 
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Kyrill Melai
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Loanstar wrote:
1) For the science/military action the bot doesn't score VP because the VP are not part of the action card. So a bot can research/+vp, military/+vp or research/military.


The science/military card doesn't show the civbot gets vp for increasing military and science. The rule book however links the VP to the actual action the civbot takes not to the card. And the VP for the single science or military card is conditional. Therefore I am inclined to think civbots get VP for the dual military/science card.

If the level gained provides a bonus, the Vp isn't gained. I have no idea what constitues a bonus. None of them apply to civbots, do civbots always get the VP? Is being able to use the advanced action a bonus?
 
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Rob Davidson
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NoDDs wrote:
Loanstar wrote:
1) For the science/military action the bot doesn't score VP because the VP are not part of the action card. So a bot can research/+vp, military/+vp or research/military.


The science/military card doesn't show the civbot gets vp for increasing military and science. The rule book however links the VP to the actual action the civbot takes not to the card. And the VP for the single science or military card is conditional. Therefore I am inclined to think civbots get VP for the dual military/science card.

If the level gained provides a bonus, the Vp isn't gained. I have no idea what constitues a bonus. None of them apply to civbots, do civbots always get the VP? Is being able to use the advanced action a bonus?


Here is the quote I have regarding the Tech action:

With the Technology action, the Civbot gains ae
Technology level and 1 VP. If the new level grants
a bonus, the Civbot does not get this bonus. If less
than level 16 and a Matrix limit is reached, the
Civbot gains 1 Military level instead. After level 16,
the civbot gains 2 VP for each further improvement


It's the same terminology for the Mil Action.
Regarding the 'bonus' statement; it's just re-stating that nothing is gained for the CivBot when it reaches a 'bonus' that would apply to a player...such as recovering cubes, or gaining advanced actions, etc. Bonus' (bonii? bonuses?) are described on pg 9.
 
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Ian St. John
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After pondering your input, I'm on the fence on that particular issue. I lean towards no VP for the Military+Research-Card because I like how it balances the cards in a way that the double gain is not strictly better for the bot than either of the other two cards.

On the other hand, a rule is a rule and the VP gain should apply if you go strictly by the action description as per the rulebook so I'm left undecided.

As far as tech boni for Civbots go, there is only two relevant advances, I am aware of. One is Navigation to alter the Expansion Action and the other is Advanced War which per the rulebook does apply and increases the VP gain for Civbot War Actions (and it's a pretty big deal actually getting up to 8 VP per round for the wars).
 
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Rob Davidson
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Loanstar wrote:
After pondering your input, I'm on the fence on that particular issue. I lean towards no VP for the Military+Research-Card because I like how it balances the cards in a way that the double gain is not strictly better for the bot than either of the other two cards.

On the other hand, a rule is a rule and the VP gain should apply if you go strictly by the action description as per the rulebook so I'm left undecided.

As far as tech boni for Civbots go, there is only two relevant advances, I am aware of. One is Navigation to alter the Expansion Action and the other is Advanced War which per the rulebook does apply and increases the VP gain for Civbot War Actions (and it's a pretty big deal actually getting up to 8 VP per round for the wars).


Agree on the last, NAV and ADV War have to apply when the bot has reached the applicable levels in Tech. Regarding what the card(s) have printed on them...well, I certainly don't think that it's a case of the card trumping the rules as is done in other games; if that were the case then the rules should read something like 'do the action printed on the card and then add any VP listed on the card'. I think it was either neglected to have it printed on the card as an oversight either by the printer (such as the dotted action on the advisor) or in the code that was sent to the printer.....though, my perception of the situation is STILL hypothetical at this time.....my copy is still somewhere out in the limbo world as I type this and I don't possess the physical items in hand.....cry(I rarely use emoticons....so you know it really is how I feel right now....)
 
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Pedro Sanchez
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The civbots do not get bonus from tech or military orogress and therefore have no acces to advanced military or science. If you think about it the civbots already make something similar to the advanced action since they can progress twice in military and science in a single action round, something the human player cannot do wothout the advanced action.
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John Sweeney
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1) The cards with a single Tech or Military icon give a level increase plus 1VP.

The text in the rules that says "the Civbot gains one Military level instead" is an unfinished sentence. It needs to say whether it is:
a) instead of the "Tech Level" or
b) instead of the "Tech Level +1VP"

My firm belief is that it is a).

The card says gain a level and 1VP. The rules text just clarifies that if you can't have the appropriate level you have the other one instead.

2) The combined card is not covered in the rules at all. But I am absolutely certain that if they had wanted the Tech/Military card to provide VPs then they would have printed a VP symbol on the card.

The single action cards provide a level plus 1VP. The dual action card provides two levels. That is balanced. To give VPs as well would make the dual card far too strong.

So until the author makes a ruling I am planning to play that a single card always gives 1VP below level 16 and a dual card does not give VPs.
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West Ward Hough
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I came across this thread in a rules search (it was the highest result), and while I think the consensus generally reached the right conclusions - to anyone else stumbling across this thread, most of these questions are definitively answered by the designer here: FAQ. That FAQ is worth reading for anyone learning this game, but here are a few of the highlights relevant to this thread:

Quote:
1) Some of the action cards of civbots have 2 actions on them. How does that work ? you do both actions ? if yes do you get 2 victory points as well ?

Quote:
For dual action Civbot cards both actions are performed, the top one first. Civbots gain VP for an action only if it is specified on the action card. In other words with the dual card Technology/Military they do not gain VP.



Quote:
2) if a civbot canot improve technology, he should improve military instead. Does he get the victory point also ?

raist_idg wrote:
When a Civbot cannot perform the action (Military, Technology, Art) it still gets 1 VP if the card specifies it.




Quote:
4) can the wonder row be empty ? if yes, does a civbot get victory point even if he doesnt take a wonder card ?
5) what happens when there is no more cards in the wonder era deck ?

Quote:
When determining the number of Wonders to draw, do not count Civbots.
When a Civbot cannot perform the action (Military, Technology, Art) it still gets 1 VP if the card specifies it.


Sorry for raising this thread from the dead!
 
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