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Shadows of Brimstone: City of the Ancients» Forums » Rules

Subject: Bandito tornado rules questions rss

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Maurice Oksman
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Inspector Jee wrote:
Maurice_Oksman wrote:

I mean, I just think the following 4 abilities/items could benifit from an official clarification/FAQ: Swinging Fists, Rage, Whirling Strike and Knuckle Dusters.

*Update*=I’d also like to add 1 final thing about Whirling Strike: Use 2 Grit as an attack to roll your full combat against every adjacent enemy

What’s super annoying about the wording here is the omission of the phrase “Instead of using a melee attack”, as seen in Swingin’ Fists. This is so ambiguous—One might even consider it a free attack (I don’t) based on its wording alone.

If I had to rewrite Whirling Strike as I think it’s intended, i’d say: Instead of a normal Melee attack, you may perform the following Special Action: Use 2 Grit as an attack to roll your Full Combat against every adjacent Enemy

Both Whirling Strike & Swingin’ Fists can benefit from the use of the phrase “Special Action”, which can subsequently be defined in future rulebooks and FAQs as being ineligible from any weapon benifits, but can be benifit from non-weapon universal bonuses.

Now—I know this goes against my earlier claims on Knuckle dusters, but I’m probably fine with letting that go unless they find a way to rewrite Knuckle Dusters to specifically circumvent this rule—butnI can live with Knickle Dusters also being excluded.


Whirling Strike is not meant to be in the same category as Swingin' Fists, regarding Gear stacking.

You can tell because it uses the phrasing "full combat" instead of mentioned a specific number, as Swingin' Fists does: "... do a 3 combat melee attack ..." I will grant you that neither of these Upgrades are worded well, but if you understand how Free Attacks work, puzzling out what to do here isn't too bad.

Whirling Strike is actually the clearest of the two: it says that you use it "... as a Attack roll your full combat against every ...", which is inline with the wording newer content uses (like the Sorceress Spells from FoFo): it means "doing this thing counts as your 1 non-Free Attack for the Turn." It also says "full Combat" - not "base", not X Combat, FULL Combat - which means it wants you to literally roll one regular Melee Attack, with all the bells and whistles your Gear can muster, against each Enemy next to you one after the other. If seems a lot better than Swingin' Fists, that's because it is - and it should be, because a) it requires being a melee Marshal, which means ditching an entire Starting Ability and Weapon, b) it's a Tier 3 Upgrade in a Tree that nobody wants to go down, and c) it's twice the price using a resource (Grit) the Marshal gets at a half the rate the Bandido does. It must be better. It must be WAY better.

Unlike the Marshal Upgrade, Swingin' Fists specifies the exact number of Combat to be used - the only other place we see that is with Free Attacks. This makes it likely that the designers intent here was to remove Gear/Items from the equation. And the differences in the two Upgrades' availability, investment, and cost practically demand it.

In the case of the Knuckle Dusters: they're Gear. Swingin' Fists: no. Whirling Strike: yes. If you need a thematic justification, know that fighting with brass knuckles is actually a skill. Swinging with wild abandon, such that you might even hit your friends, is unlikely to dependably gain the benefits of anything meant to be used as a weapon.

Maurice_Oksman wrote:

Both Whirling Strike & Swingin’ Fists can benefit from the use of the phrase “Special Action”
You would need to define "Special Action" somewhere official, as it is nowhere in the Rulebook. Granted, that's never stopped them before but lets at least try to stick to what's there. I feel that introducing a whole new category of Attacks at this point will cause more problems than it solves.

- Jee

Wow—great answer as usual Jee. I agree with everything you said 100%—especially the justification why Whirling Strike is so much better than swinging fists, and rightly so at being a tier 3 US Marshal ability.

He was actually my first character created, and I fully intended on making him all about the shotgun, but hilariously enough, he’s level 6, but has hilariously rolled +1 combat when leveling up 3 times! Making his base combat 5 lol. So he’s holding an executioners shotgun and I have a cavalry saber just waiting on my mule for him to grow a 3rd arm lol. Right now he’s got a belt on him that way heals him 1 health/sanity for every kill, but I should really get the belt from the blacksmith that lets me roll twice for mutations to better my chances of a 3rd arm. That would optimize both the shotgun which gets +1 damage when adjacent and high combat he has.

I didn’t really meta-plan him so hard and even if I did, all these random +1 combats would have messed that up anyway. At level 6, I’ll probably end up going for trying to finish out the resolve chart, getting damage bonus for his mutations...but technically any direction I go means I wouldn’t get a 4th level upgrade until I hit level 8, which is never really a good meta plan.

Anyways—thanks for the clarifications!
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