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Subject: What is not to like about 5p? rss

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Sebastian Frostie
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Hey all, how's it goin?

I enjoyed CO2 very very much, it's very unique in many ways, there is no doubt of that. (Edit: and yes we play CO2 as 4p games.)

We usually play 4 player games (Discworld, Civilization, Keyflower etc) or 8 player games (Avalon, Space Cadet Dice Duel etc), but recently we have a new member joining our normal gaming group.

So for 5 players, we have played enough Dominant Species, Avalon and Bang, so I check my shelf and "hmm... maybe I can pull CO2 out for the next gathering."

Then I check the "preferred player" in the BGG database and found out more than 50% of players voted not recommending 5 players, and I honestly wonder why?

Is it because of the long game play, that people just lose patience? Or that it gets really messy? Or make the game too difficult or easy?

Why why why?

Thank you all in advance for answering! Have a great day as well!
 
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Bryan Thunkd
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Five players makes the game too long.
 
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Harold Coleman
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I have played several 5p games with no issues other than the occasional AP-prone player who is a problem in any game. I think the main concern is the downtime between your turns as you sit and twiddle your thumbs while 4 other players take their turns. There really isn't much to do on other players' turns except for the occasional move of one of your displaced scientists. However, the 5p game itself should be quicker than 4p since there are fewer turns per decade - 10 versus 12 for 4p.
 
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Bartosz Popow
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I played CO2 with 5 players only once. I felt a complete lack of control, at least compared to a 3 player game. Game state changed too much from one of my moves to the next to plan anything ahead. Other players' turns are not that interesting to me, so yeah, it dragged a bit. Overall it came out ok, but I'd rather play with fewer players.
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Jim Andrew
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it wont be quicker because 5P game is played in 6 decades instead of 5
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Mc Jarvis
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50% of BGG users don't have more than 3 friends?

I suspect this is a matter of having better 5p games to use as alternatives, though I don't see anything particularly wrong with playing CO2 with 5.
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Harold Coleman
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veenickz wrote:
it wont be quicker because 5P game is played in 6 decades instead of 5


Right, I stand corrected. So same number of turns - 6x10 vs. 5x12? The games should be identical in length.
 
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Gordon Watson
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If you are playing with the normal rules of the Start-Player passing to the left each round then down-time can be a serious problem when playing with 5 players. On the turn you are first player you take your turn then have to wait for 8 more players to have their go before you get another turn.
 
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Chris Berger
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In addition to the longer game and more downtime, 5p is also more likely to end with everyone losing, most likely after the 2nd round.

4p has 24 actions by the end of the 2nd round, while 5p has only 20 actions by that point, so that's 1 to 2 fewer green plants being built early in the game. In addition, the most straightforward, rely-only-on-yourself route to building a power plant takes 3 of your own actions, so you could have 1 per person per round in a 4p. With 5p each player has only 4 actions in the first two rounds, so unless you are paying others' scientists to go home, you will each only build 1 plant. I haven't done the math in a while, but I believe that if you don't build more than 5 plants by that point that the odds of losing by CO2 death are pretty high.

That means that 5p is more of a semi co-op - you almost have to agree to cooperate to keep the game from ending early. If you do lose early, the game is pretty much no fun for anyone. So I would kind of suggest to ignore an early game over playing with 5, but that does tend to lose a little of the tension in the game. With 4p, it's still possible to lose early, but pretty unlikely unless someone is trying to make it happen. Everyone has to try to build enough plants to keep the game from ending, but you don't have to actively cooperate. And I really don't like semi co-op games in general - it sounds like a fun mechanic, but it never seems to work well in practice.
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Sebastian Frostie
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Thanks all for the responses, they are really helpful!

McJarvis wrote:
50% of BGG users don't have more than 3 friends?

I suspect this is a matter of having better 5p games to use as alternatives, though I don't see anything particularly wrong with playing CO2 with 5.


Hahaha you are terrible!
But definitely Space Alert for one should be able to beat last will for 5 any day in my opinion.

arkayn wrote:
In addition to the longer game and more downtime, 5p is also more likely to end with everyone losing, most likely after the 2nd round.

4p has 24 actions by the end of the 2nd round, while 5p has only 20 actions by that point, so that's 1 to 2 fewer green plants being built early in the game. In addition, the most straightforward, rely-only-on-yourself route to building a power plant takes 3 of your own actions, so you could have 1 per person per round in a 4p. With 5p each player has only 4 actions in the first two rounds, so unless you are paying others' scientists to go home, you will each only build 1 plant. I haven't done the math in a while, but I believe that if you don't build more than 5 plants by that point that the odds of losing by CO2 death are pretty high.

That means that 5p is more of a semi co-op - you almost have to agree to cooperate to keep the game from ending early. If you do lose early, the game is pretty much no fun for anyone. So I would kind of suggest to ignore an early game over playing with 5, but that does tend to lose a little of the tension in the game. With 4p, it's still possible to lose early, but pretty unlikely unless someone is trying to make it happen. Everyone has to try to build enough plants to keep the game from ending, but you don't have to actively cooperate. And I really don't like semi co-op games in general - it sounds like a fun mechanic, but it never seems to work well in practice.


Yeap, very good points. Even though I still hope to see a good semi-coop game in the future that can change your mind mister. I just want to believe that it can be done.
 
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Fred Wojtkielewicz
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well key flower, power grid, el grande, agricola, vanuatu, terra mystica are good 5p choices.
 
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