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Subject: Compatibility rss

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Tom Lehmann
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State of Emergency requires just the Pandemic base game. Everything you need for the Superbug challenge is included. The fifth disease components are duplicated, so OTB and ITL aren't needed (although SoE is compatible with them, as well).


For first edition owners (who don't mind mixed artwork styles):

* The new Roles, Quarantines, and the Hinterlands challenge can be played out of the box.

* If you opaque sleeve the player cards, you can use the Event cards and Emergency Events challenge.

* In addition, if you either opaque sleeve the Infection cards or use the first edition OTB Mutation cards as proxies, you can play the Superbug challenge.

As an alternative to opaque sleeves, you can buy the compatibility deck.
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Wait, so you cannot use this with In the Lab either?
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Sounds great, Tom. I can't wait to learn more. When you say that "the fifth disease components are duplicated," do you mean that additional purple cubes (or whatever color) are included in SoE, so you don't need the extra cubes from OTB?
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Tom Lehmann
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Grudunza wrote:
When you say that "the fifth disease components are duplicated," do you mean that additional purple cubes (or whatever color) are included in SoE?
Yes.
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Slashdoctor wrote:
Wait, so you cannot use this with In the Lab either?
Tom Lehmann wrote:
OTB and ITL aren't needed (although SoE is compatible with them, as well).
What I'm personally more interested in is will this fit the new Pandemic: In the Lab box (if you throw away extra 5th disease) or do you need to store this separately?
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Tom Lehmann
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I've stored my SoE prototype in my main box (with the insert), along with both ITL and OTB. It's pretty full, takes some packing, and the box lid does rise up some. Whether this will be possible with the final production components, I don't know. I haven't seen them, yet.

We'll know more after the expansion comes out.
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Tom Lehmann wrote:
I've stored my SoE prototype in my main box (with the insert), along with both ITL and OTB. It's pretty full, takes some packing, and the box lid does rise up some. Whether this will be possible with the final production components, I don't know. I haven't seen them, yet.

We'll know more after the expansion comes out.
Surely this is a question that should be addressed before the expansion comes out?!
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Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Surely this is a question that should be addressed before the expansion comes out?!
The box size will be the same as previous expansions. That size is dictated by Target and other stores. So, there's no wiggle room on that end. Z-Man simply can't make the box bigger.

SoE requires only the base game. They should both fit in a box.

Beyond that, it depends on factors that are partially up to the players. How many expansions are they trying to fit in? Do they sleeve their cards? Do they use the OTB insert? Are they trying to keep duplicate stuff? Do they put the entire BT pad in or just a few sheets? There's lots of variables, which is why there is no definitive answer.
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Tom Lehmann wrote:
Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Surely this is a question that should be addressed before the expansion comes out?!
The box size will be the same as previous expansions. That size is dictated by Target and other stores. So, there's no wiggle room on that end. Z-Man simply can't make the box bigger.

SoE requires only the base game. They should both fit in a box.

Beyond that, it depends on factors that are partially up to the players. How many expansions are they trying to fit in? Do they sleeve their cards? Do they use the OTB insert? Are they trying to keep duplicate stuff? Do they put the entire BT pad in or just a few sheets? There's lots of variables, which is why there is no definitive answer.
What I meant was more that looking at things like there being no room left in the insert for any more pawns and addressing that.

If the new expansion comes with the same insert as OTB and ITL then there simply will be no room for any additional pawns if you have all expansions, but I'm sure room could be made with minor modifications to the insert design.

However, leaving that till after the expansion has been released is pointless.
 
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Scorpion0x17 wrote:
What I meant was more that looking at things like there being no room left in the insert
I don't expect SoE to come with the same insert, since the Petri dishes come with OTB and SoE doesn't require OTB.

That insert simply doesn't work for customers with just the base set.

You can't have it both ways. Either SoE requires OTB or it doesn't. The publisher chose the former.


I expect I'll probably use two boxes when SoE arrives:

* Box 1: Insert w/ Petri dishes, disease cubes and vaccine vials, and markers; cure vials; stations; two decks sideways (works well with sleeves): a player deck with events and epidemics, and infection deck plus roles and base game summary cards; base, OTB, and ITL pawns in slots, plus the SoE pawns in a small bag with the cards, plus the main board on top to keep everything nice and secure. Essentially, everything you need to play the base game with all roles and events (with the purple dish and team game markers squirreled away out of sight).

* Box 2: Plain insert w/ all the cards used in challenges (virulent strain epidemics, emergency events, mutation events, Superbug mutation, summary, and bonus cards, team goal and bonus cards, lab sequence and lab summary cards, BT and Solo roles), plus all the team stations, the lab board, the entire BT pad, and various SoE stuff I'm not going to mention. Essentially, everything you need to add for challenges.

The end result is similar to what a "big box" version might look like, with the added benefit that you can simply take Box 1 if you know you're not going to play with any challenges (say, you're playing with newbies).

The toughest thing I found with my everything crammed into a single box was that sifting through all the cards to find the ones I needed for a particular challenge was an issue, particularly given how crammed the card section of the insert had become. By spreading the cards between two boxes, you can bag the challenge cards by groups.
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Tom Lehmann wrote:
Scorpion0x17 wrote:
What I meant was more that looking at things like there being no room left in the insert
I don't expect SoE to come with the same insert, since the Petri dishes come with OTB and SoE doesn't require OTB.

That insert simply doesn't work for customers with just the base set.

You can't have it both ways. Either SoE requires OTB or it doesn't. The publisher chose the former.
Ah, yeah, that makes sense.

And it sounds like what I am saying needs addressing probably has indeed been addressed.

Tom Lehmann wrote:
I expect I'll probably use two boxes when SoE arrives:

* Box 1: Insert w/ Petri dishes, disease cubes and vaccine vials, and markers; cure vials; stations; two decks sideways (works well with sleeves): a player deck with events and epidemics, and infection deck plus roles and base game summary cards; base, OTB, and ITL pawns in slots, plus the SoE pawns in a small bag with the cards, plus the main board on top to keep everything nice and secure. Essentially, everything you need to play the base game with all roles and events (with the purple dish and team game markers squirreled away out of sight).

* Box 2: Plain insert w/ all the cards used in challenges (virulent strain epidemics, emergency events, mutation events, Superbug mutation, summary, and bonus cards, team goal and bonus cards, lab sequence and lab summary cards, BT and Solo roles), plus all the team stations, the lab board, the entire BT pad, and various SoE stuff I'm not going to mention. Essentially, everything you need to add for challenges.
Again that makes sense.

I will probably do something very similar, only with the added complication of using sleeved cards...
 
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But, to go back to something else you said...

Tom Lehmann wrote:
That size is dictated by Target and other stores.
I've seen this stated a number of times, but, don't Target also sell Flash Point: Fire Rescue, which has a deeper box.

In fact a quick look at their websites reveals they sell a wide range of games with boxes of all sorts of sizes (and shapes).

And, before someone cries "small publisher vs big publisher!" - Target also sell Robot Turtles!
 
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Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Tom Lehmann wrote:
That size is dictated by Target and other stores.
I've seen this stated a number of times, but [doesn't] Target also sell Flash Point: Fire Rescue, which has a deeper box.
Correct, but irrelevant.

My understanding -- but I'm not the publisher and don't know all the details -- is that you negotiate with these big chains what your SKU and box size is going to be as part of their decision to pick you up. If you then change your box size, you are no longer guaranteed that they will continue to carry you. You have to re-negotiate (which is often a time-intensive process).

Further, if you want your expansions to be shelved next to the base game, having them be the same size really helps.

Thus, once Z-Man negotiated the original box size, they were locked into it. They can't change it unilaterally and still expect to be automatically carried. That's my impression from what they've told me. For any more details, you need to talk to them, not me.
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Tom Lehmann wrote:
Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Tom Lehmann wrote:
That size is dictated by Target and other stores.
I've seen this stated a number of times, but [doesn't] Target also sell Flash Point: Fire Rescue, which has a deeper box.
Correct, but irrelevant.

My understanding -- but I'm not the publisher and don't know all the details -- is that you negotiate with these big chains what your SKU and box size is going to be as part of their decision to pick you up. If you then change your box size, you are no longer guaranteed that they will continue to carry you. You have to re-negotiate (which is often a time-intensive process).

Further, if you want your expansions to be shelved next to the base game, having them be the same size really helps.

Thus, once Z-Man negotiated the original box size, they were locked into it. They can't change it unilaterally and still expect to be automatically carried. That's my impression from what they've told me. For any more details, you need to talk to them, not me.
Ah, thanks, that makes sense now.

(And, as I understand it, "don't" is acceptable because Target is a plural entity)
 
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Scorpion0x17 wrote:
(And, as I understand it, "don't" is acceptable because Target is a plural entity)
(Target is a single entity with multiple physical locations, so "doesn't" would be correct, at least with North American usage. If British usage differs... then all bets are off. )
 
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B Factor wrote:
Scorpion0x17 wrote:
(And, as I understand it, "don't" is acceptable because Target is a plural entity)
(Target is a single entity with multiple physical locations, so "doesn't" would be correct, at least with North American usage. If British usage differs... then all bets are off. )
(In Britain it is certainly not uncommon, and accepted, to say something like "Target sell milk, don't they?")
 
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Scorpion0x17 wrote:
B Factor wrote:
Scorpion0x17 wrote:
(And, as I understand it, "don't" is acceptable because Target is a plural entity)
(Target is a single entity with multiple physical locations, so "doesn't" would be correct, at least with North American usage. If British usage differs... then all bets are off. )
(In Britain it is certainly not uncommon, and accepted, to say something like "Target sell milk, don't they?")
It would equally be acceptable to say "Doesn't Target sell milk?"

But then...when did Target get into the perishable consumables business?
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Maybe one box would've been pushing it anyway, challenge stuff in one box and ordinary stuff in other does sound pretty good.
 
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max_s wrote:
Maybe one box would've been pushing it anyway, challenge stuff in one box and ordinary stuff in other does sound pretty good.
That's exactly how I've set it out so far.

The base game with the 4 base petri dishes from OTB and the vial markers from ITL in the base box, including all the extra roles and events from both expansions.

The rest goes into a combined expansion box; I don't play the extra missions or use the lab much, but the extra roles etc. are always mixed into the base (as described in OTB).

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Why isn't this only compatible with the 3rd edition of Pandemic?

Looks very interesting and cant wait to get my diseased hands on it.
 
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Tom Lehmann wrote:
Grudunza wrote:
When you say that "the fifth disease components are duplicated," do you mean that additional purple cubes (or whatever color) are included in SoE?
Yes.
Seems odd that you'd make the superbug purple, if that is what is meant.

Plenty of open colours and this prevents people playing a 6 disease game, plus I can foresee that conversation about how this is the mutation not the super bug or viceversa over and over.

Regarding the boxing. Remove the insert, make up tuckboxes, and assuming this doesn't add 200+ cards, it is going to fit in one box just fine. Mine has the lid raising aout 5mm above flush but with loads of space for more components.
 
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j_holmes wrote:
Why isn't this only compatible with the 3rd edition of Pandemic?
What 3rd edition? In North America, there have only been 2 editions (although each has had printings differing in minor ways).

For example, 1st edition printings differed in the size of pawns and linen vs non-linen finish cards and 2nd edition printings have varied in having wooden vs plastic markers.

State of Emergency is a 2nd edition product that is partially compatible with Pandemic 1st edition, as described above.
 
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eldaec wrote:
Seems odd that you'd make the superbug purple, if that is what is meant.
We considered making it a different color and rejected this idea.

Having the Superbug disease be purple allows it to be easily combined with either ITL's lab challenge or Team Game. It avoids issues with components (such as the lab board and sequence cards or the Team Game reward markers) that depict purple cubes and vials, but not a 6th color.

It also avoids having to add a bunch of extra rules to the Mutation challenges redefining the victory conditions and detailing how drawing successive Mutation and Superbug cards would work.

The benefits just didn't seem worth the hassles of these incompatibilities and additional rules.

You're, of course, welcome to play whatever variant you want, borrowing cubes of a different color and playing with 6 (or 7 or 8) diseases as you wish.
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Hadn't thought of the ItL sequence cards, but putting it that way I can see why it makes sense.
 
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Tom Lehmann wrote:
eldaec wrote:
Seems odd that you'd make the superbug purple, if that is what is meant.
We considered making it a different color and rejected this idea.

Having the Superbug disease be purple allows it to be easily combined with either ITL's lab challenge or Team Game. It avoids issues with components (such as the lab board and sequence cards or the Team Game reward markers) that depict purple cubes and vials, but not a 6th color.

It also avoids having to add a bunch of extra rules to the Mutation challenges redefining the victory conditions and detailing how drawing successive Mutation and Superbug cards would work.

The benefits just didn't seem worth the hassles of these incompatibilities and additional rules.

You're, of course, welcome to play whatever variant you want, borrowing cubes of a different color and playing with 6 (or 7 or 8) diseases as you wish.
That makes sense.

Re: the box size, are there any plans to produce a big box ala Catan? Could be cool to have a themed box to fit everything.
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