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Star Trek: Attack Wing» Forums » General

Subject: Chang's BoP has B'rel's stats but K'vort's maneuver dial rss

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Steve Smith
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Just got my Scimitar and Chang's Bird-of-Prey.

Was surprised that Chang's BoP has the stats of the small B'rel-class BoP (2 less hull than K'vort) but the maneuver dial of the larger K'vort-class BoP (3 turn is red instead of white) - in other words, the worst of both worlds.

Also, Admiral Gorkon has no Elite Talent slot. Truly, he is a talentless admiral.

 
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Stormtrooper721 wrote:
Just got my Scimitar and Chang's Bird-of-Prey.

Was surprised that Chang's BoP has the stats of the small B'rel-class BoP (3 less hull than K'vort)


5 - 3 = .....3! Wait a minute....
 
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Will Holsclaw
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It's more accurate to say that it has the Vor'cha/Valdore maneuver dial. It has better green maneuvers than either the B'rel or the K'Vort.
 
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Sean Davis
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Given all of the sensor echo shenanigans packaged with the ship, I don't think that those 3 turns are going to be too big a deal to me. Especially with a lot of green to drop aux tokens fairly easily.

On the other hand, compared to the older sculpt (the Koraga and all the other Birds of Prey, so far...), how does Chang's ship look? Am I going to be wanting to get more just for prettier birds of prey? (Not that the old sculpt wasn't acceptable, but I've always thought the "wings up" configuration looked more predatory.)
 
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It looks pretty cool. As you say, not much wrong with the wings-down models, but I would say this one looks better. Just my opinion, of course.
 
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Sean Davis
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Cool. I'm looking forward to getting one and turning it loose on the table. Sadly, with no friendly local game store, I have to wait on the postal service, not to mention retailers packing and getting stuff to the postman...
 
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Steve Smith
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yourmonkey06 wrote:
Stormtrooper721 wrote:
Just got my Scimitar and Chang's Bird-of-Prey.

Was surprised that Chang's BoP has the stats of the small B'rel-class BoP (3 less hull than K'vort)


5 - 3 = .....3! Wait a minute....


Sorry, corrected - 2 less hull.
 
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Steve Smith
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Illyth wrote:
It's more accurate to say that it has the Vor'cha/Valdore maneuver dial. It has better green maneuvers than either the B'rel or the K'Vort.


True, the 2 banks are green whereas they're white on the B'rel and K'vort. Still, that 3 turn has gotten my B'rel's but out of the line of fire sssooooo many times. I'm going to miss it dearly on Chang's BoP.
 
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Illyth wrote:
It's more accurate to say that it has the Vor'cha/Valdore maneuver dial. It has better green maneuvers than either the B'rel or the K'Vort.


It's not really more accurate than comparing to ship's with the same basic sculpt concept. It's an oversight at worst and a disregard of the established dial at worst.
 
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Raymond Albright
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Captain Boris wrote:
Illyth wrote:
It's more accurate to say that it has the Vor'cha/Valdore maneuver dial. It has better green maneuvers than either the B'rel or the K'Vort.


It's not really more accurate than comparing to ship's with the same basic sculpt concept. It's an oversight at worst and a disregard of the establised dial at worst.


Considering that they gave the ship a different generic name, they provided a different maneuvering dial, and upgrades that can only be assigned to a ship with that generic name. It is acceptable to assume this was on purpose.

In fact i imagine/hope that this means we will be getting "older" versions of the Bird of Prey (from the movie era) that are this model, slightly worse then the modern one.

This could mean Kruge's BOP from ST III, Klaa's BOP from ST V, and perhaps even use this version for Lursa and Bator's BOP from generations since worf was all about it being "the older retired model"

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Jon Ginever
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Captain Boris wrote:
Illyth wrote:
It's more accurate to say that it has the Vor'cha/Valdore maneuver dial. It has better green maneuvers than either the B'rel or the K'Vort.


It's not really more accurate than comparing to ship's with the same basic sculpt concept. It's an oversight at worst and a disregard of the established dial at worst.


I think you're making a little too much out of this. Chang's Bird of prey is not B'rel class, it is a Bird of Prey class.

Think of it being two different classes, that happen to have the same stats but slightly different manouevres (and different models if it comes to that), rather like the D7 and Raptor classes, their stats are identicle, but the raptor has white 2 banks and the D7's 2 banks are green.
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bigrayalbright wrote:

In fact i imagine/hope that this means we will be getting "older" versions of the Bird of Prey (from the movie era) that are this model, slightly worse then the modern one.

This could mean Kruge's BOP from ST III, Klaa's BOP from ST V, and perhaps even use this version for Lursa and Bator's BOP from generations since worf was all about it being "the older retired model"



I don't necessarily like that its not a B'Rel, but I can live with it. I do like your speculation regarding further BOP's of the era though. Would give the Klingons another general option with the Okrona (General Kord). And who wouldn't want a Christopher-Lloyd-as-a-Klingon. Though I would think that one would have to be a hefty pack to account for its dual status (how about a captain version of Scotty with the talent "There Be Whale's Here!").
 
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Jon Ginever
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It would be nice for a second BoP class ship to have something other than the generic to use the prototype cloak upgrade on (since Chang's BoP has a very similar ability baked in anyway.
 
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Sodoff Baldrick
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Spiney_Norman wrote:

I think you're making a little too much out of this. Chang's Bird of prey is not B'rel class, it is a Bird of Prey class.

Think of it being two different classes, that happen to have the same stats but slightly different manouevres (and different models if it comes to that), rather like the D7 and Raptor classes, their stats are identicle, but the raptor has white 3 turns and the D7's 3 turns are red.


Actually the D7 has a very good dial, much better then the Raptor. The D7 has more green, slightly different action/upgrade bar.


On the other hand Norman is right about Chang's BoP it is supposed to be older than the B'Rel, plus it was a "prototype" for its time. So it makes sense to me that it had to sacrifice some maneuverability to accommodate for the new cloaking technology.
 
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Jon Ginever
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Mr S Baldrick wrote:

Actually the D7 has a very good dial, much better then the Raptor. The D7 has more green, slightly different action/upgrade bar.

On the other hand Norman is right about Chang's BoP it is supposed to be older than the B'Rel, plus it was a "prototype" for its time. So it makes sense to me that it had to sacrifice some maneuverability to accommodate for the new cloaking technology.


Well what do you know, space dock has a dodgy manoeuvre grid for the D7 class, not a mistake that gets picked up very often I'd wager

I will correct my earlier post, but the point still stands that Brel/Bid of prey are not the only ship classes in the game that share identicle stats but differ on manoeuvres.
 
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The Jigsaw Man
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Spiney_Norman wrote:
Chang's Bird of prey is not B'rel class, it is a Bird of Prey class.


Which is similar to claiming that "It's not Iowa-class, it's Battleship-class.
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Aaron Percival
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I think it's more to denote it was the only one of its kind. It was neither B'Rel or K'Vort.
 
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David Griffin
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It's always hard to know just how many classes there are of this Klingon "bird of prey" due to inconsistencies in the movie special effects. FASA made 3 different sizes trying to conform to the visuals, a small one (B'Rel), a large one (K'Vort) and a middle of the road one called the D-32 or Stronger Bird (if I recall correctly). It's just possible this ship is the D-32. Even in the next generation, sometimes, the birds of prey were little ships and sometimes they were big battlecruisers.

The current JJ Enterprise has reached a new low of inconsistency as far as size though which makes me nostalgic for the birds of prey controversies.
 
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Jon Ginever
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aaron2310 wrote:
I think it's more to denote it was the only one of its kind. It was neither B'Rel or K'Vort.


Maybe, I like to think it's more of a time-period thing and that if they ever get around to making models for Kruge or Klaa's Birds of prey they would be the same class.
 
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JgzMan wrote:
Spiney_Norman wrote:
Chang's Bird of prey is not B'rel class, it is a Bird of Prey class.


Which is similar to claiming that "It's not Iowa-class, it's Battleship-class.


The thing about it is though, the types of Klingon birds of prey are a bit blurred. They rarely referred to the classes by name, they gave them inconsistent sizes, but they all looked the same. Generations tends to suggest, however, that the smaller ones used in TNG were a different class than the one the Duras sisters were using (which may have matched up with the TOS movie birds). The Bounty and Okrona would be of this class then if they are ever made, setting them apart from the Ch'tang, Ningtao and Korok's.
 
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Aaron Percival
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Spiney_Norman wrote:
aaron2310 wrote:
I think it's more to denote it was the only one of its kind. It was neither B'Rel or K'Vort.


Maybe, I like to think it's more of a time-period thing and that if they ever get around to making models for Kruge or Klaa's Birds of prey they would be the same class.


They were the same as the BoP from Generations IIRC. D12?
 
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Spiney_Norman wrote:
Captain Boris wrote:
Illyth wrote:
It's more accurate to say that it has the Vor'cha/Valdore maneuver dial. It has better green maneuvers than either the B'rel or the K'Vort.


It's not really more accurate than comparing to ship's with the same basic sculpt concept. It's an oversight at worst and a disregard of the established dial at worst.


I think you're making a little too much out of this. Chang's Bird of prey is not B'rel class, it is a Bird of Prey class.

Think of it being two different classes, that happen to have the same stats but slightly different manouevres (and different models if it comes to that), rather like the D7 and Raptor classes, their stats are identicle, but the raptor has white 2 banks and the D7's 2 banks are green.


Ah, I was under the impression it was a B'rel class.
 
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Honestly, no one really knows. Its never stated onscreen what class the TOS movie birds-of-prey are. And they all look the same, even the larger ones! Based on Worf's line from Generations, however, I don't think its an unfair assumption that they aren't necessarily the same class as ones from the TNG/DS9 era.
 
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Waspinator
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Unfortunately, Klingon engineers are apparently very lazy and keep reusing their designs.
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Jon Ginever
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yourmonkey06 wrote:
Honestly, no one really knows. Its never stated onscreen what class the TOS movie birds-of-prey are. And they all look the same, even the larger ones! Based on Worf's line from Generations, however, I don't think its an unfair assumption that they aren't necessarily the same class as ones from the TNG/DS9 era.


I think ship class information for all klingon birds or prey is pretty hazy at best, it does make sense to assume that D12 which Worf described as obsolete in ST Generations is an older version of the ship than the brel/K'vort ships that were in common use during the dominion war.

It's not really surprising that the klingons have used the same ship designs I suppose, given that the K'tinga is basically a modernised D7 and the federation has been using Miranda and Excelsior class ships since the classic movie period.
 
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