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Subject: Is Slow Recovery too punishing? rss

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Jonathan Hersey
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The other day I received 8 wounds in the take damage stage At the time my hand limit was 6, so that means I would lose 3 turns before I could get a non-wound card into my hand (unless of course a new round were to start before then).


This just seems too punishing. Healing 8 wounds over the remainder of my turns will be hard enough, but to lose so much time before I can do anything about it just seems to punishing. I wish the rule was that in a slow recover you discarded down to your hand limit -1 so that at the end of the slow recover you get to draw a card from your deed deck.

My biggest concern with the rule is with new players. Since then, I've learned a bit more about the game and am able to make more educated decisions on what is a smart risk or not. But new players (like me when I encounters this) won't know that. If this were to happen to a new player this would really wreck their play experience.

thoughts?
 
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C L
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I agree it's punishing, but I like that. Taking 8 wounds in one turn should be punishing and should be something that everyone avoids at all costs. I also agree it could wreck the experience for a new player, but it could also cause them to think, "Wow, this game is awesome, I better pay attention and calculate and maximize every decision and move that I make". Just one of a hundred reasons why this is the best game I've ever played.
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David desJardins
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Jonathan68 wrote:
The other day I received 8 wounds in the take damage stage


I suggest you don't do that.

Quote:
that means I would lose 3 turns before I could get a non-wound card into my hand (unless of course a new round were to start before then).


There are other ways of recovering faster. E.g., you might have Motivation, or Midnight Meditation.

Quote:
My biggest concern with the rule is with new players. Since then, I've learned a bit more about the game and am able to make more educated decisions on what is a smart risk or not. But new players (like me when I encounters this) won't know that. If this were to happen to a new player this would really wreck their play experience.


Also, it's unconscionable that if you're playing football and you throw the ball to the other team then they can score a touchdown! What's up with that? If that happened to me, I'd stop playing that game for sure.
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Phil McDonald
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8 wounds is a battle you should never have gotten into intentionally. The risk/reward is poor. If it's a battle that you went into blind, you weren't prepared enough or you were extremely unlucky in the monster tiles you drew.

Having said that, after the event you have the option to REST and get them all out of your hand if you have 1 normal card to discard as well.

But it's a situation that really should have been avoided.
 
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Georg D.
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philmcd wrote:
Having said that, after the event you have the option to REST and get them all out of your hand if you have 1 normal card to discard as well.


But that's his point - if you get more wounds than your handlimit you don't have any non-wound cards left. So you have to do the slow recovery.

But I agree that there is nothing wrong with the rules - they just say 'watch your a$$ and don't get in a fight which is too hard for you.'

The argument that it is to negative for newbies isn't very valid. The intrscenario has no fights against cities and the forst ruin appears quite late. So at this point you already had some fights and know how it can go wrong and if you really want to risk it. And after the introscenario you already are fixed by the game anyways...
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Phil McDonald
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Fluxx wrote:
philmcd wrote:
Having said that, after the event you have the option to REST and get them all out of your hand if you have 1 normal card to discard as well.


But that's his point - if you get more wounds than your handlimit you don't have any non-wound cards left. So you have to do the slow recovery.

But I agree that there is nothing wrong with the rules - they just say 'watch your a$$ and don't get in a fight which is too hard for you.'

The argument that it is to negative for newbies isn't very valid. The intrscenario has no fights against cities and the forst ruin appears quite late. So at this point you already had some fights and know how it can go wrong and if you really want to risk it. And after the introscenario you already are fixed by the game anyways...


Yes, but the point I was making is that if you can see you are going to have to take a lot of wounds you should either not make the attack or if it was a blind attack, make sure you hold back 1 standard card so that you CAN rest. Getting into that state of 8 wound cards was entirely optional and certainly not recommended.
 
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Georg D.
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philmcd wrote:
Yes, but the point I was making is that if you can see you are going to have to take a lot of wounds you should either not make the attack or if it was a blind attack, make sure you hold back 1 standard card so that you CAN rest. Getting into that state of 8 wound cards was entirely optional and certainly not recommended.


Once you are in the fight how do you hold back 1 card? If you get as much wounds you are k.o. so you lose all your non-wound cards. So if it is a blind fight and you are just unlucky that you draw the only enemy which can give you as many wounds you don't have any choice.
Of course you can question the decision to even start a fight where there is a slight chance of getting a k.o. but if you start it there is nothing optional on getting 8 wounds.
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Phil McDonald
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Fluxx wrote:
philmcd wrote:
Yes, but the point I was making is that if you can see you are going to have to take a lot of wounds you should either not make the attack or if it was a blind attack, make sure you hold back 1 standard card so that you CAN rest. Getting into that state of 8 wound cards was entirely optional and certainly not recommended.


Once you are in the fight how do you hold back 1 card? If you get as much wounds you are k.o. so you lose all your non-wound cards. So if it is a blind fight and you are just unlucky that you draw the only enemy which can give you as many wounds you don't have any choice.
Of course you can question the decision to even start a fight where there is a slight chance of getting a k.o. but if you start it there is nothing optional on getting 8 wounds.


Yes, ko is a problem, that's true. But I can honestly say I've never seen it happen so it's not something to get overly concerned about.
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Ben Kyo
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"Slow Recovery" is an alternative to "you are dead", and in that respect I think it is quite lenient! Without it, either soaking and healing damage would be too easy or you'd have player elimination in a game way too long for player elimination.

Seriously though, it is something that you should never let happen.
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Phil McDonald
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If you take long chances there's a good chance the game will punish you. I see that as a good thing. In game play I struggle to think of players taking more than 4 wounds in a battle... it's all about risk/reward.
 
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Jonathan Hersey
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I didn't go into a lot of detail as to "how it happened" because I didn't quite remember all the details.

I was taking on the ruins with a draconum + orc

in my hand I had the ability to block 10 (11 if I used my attack card). I don't remember what exactly the card was, but I had a strong attack card and a few skills; I want to say that I could must attack 12 or 13. Like I said I don't remember the exact number but I was confident I could kill the draconum

I drew the dragon that does ice fire attack 6 and is brutal and the summoning orc. The brown token I drew was a gargoyel (attack 7 and swift). So I wasn't able to block either monster. Had I have been able to block 1 I would have been fine but the combination of the summoner and gargoyle did me in.

Obviously I wasn't strong enough to do this but at the time I thought I was because I was still relatively new. I had done the intro session twice and this was my first solo game. I personally don't mind the rules as is, I like the difficulty. If this was with 3 people though it would really really suck. You wouldn't be able to do anything for quite a while.

I'll have to be good about explaining how challenging some areas are and explain how dire the consequences can be.
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Trevin Beattie
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philmcd wrote:
Yes, ko is a problem, that's true. But I can honestly say I've never seen it happen so it's not something to get overly concerned about.


Have you met General Volkare? devil
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Tom Rojas
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Ok so just like Ben said, if you go taking on a draconum and orc NOT well prepared, THEN you should be good as dead... Before doing that you need to think about the consequences vs rewards and what do you have on your power. If for any chance you didnt know the enemies, THEN it is better to block and RUN than get Hurt with 8 wounds...

Not a bad thing this is, but the game teaches you how to tackle on things if you are not prepared, just as life does

Loooove this game,

- Tom
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Alison Mandible
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Jonathan68 wrote:
I drew the dragon that does ice fire attack 6 and is brutal and the summoning orc. The brown token I drew was a gargoyel (attack 7 and swift). So I wasn't able to block either monster. Had I have been able to block 1 I would have been fine but the combination of the summoner and gargoyle did me in.


I see what you mean. I'm pretty okay at the game, and if I was going into that ruin with Block 11, I too would probably forget the possibility of Orc Summoner -> Werewolf.

That said, I think either some details of your description are wrong, or you played a rule wrong.

If your hand limit was 6, your armor must have been at least 3. The High Dragon would do four wounds (Attack 6, but it's brutal -> 12 damage) and the Werewolf would do three wounds (Attack 7). So you'd take 7 wounds, and only have to do a slow recovery for two turns before you had a non-wound card.

Right?

I know, that's not much better, but there you go.
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