Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
5 Posts

The Supreme Commander» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Is Infantry Tech Worthwhile? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
John Griffey
United States
Houston
Texas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
WARNING: controversial content. robot

The increase in cost of an Infantry Corps at each level of Infantry Technology results in greater cost of Infantry bang-for-the-buck at higher Tech Levels, making it pointless to invest in Infantry Tech.

Bang-for-the-buck is not firepower/unit cost.

It is firepower/(unit cost)^2. (Unit cost squared).

This because you not only get less firepower per MRP at higher cost, but also you can absorb fewer hits per MRP, for the simple reason you can buy fewer Corps at higher Corps costs.

The same holds for higher Tank Tech. Higher Tank Tech has a slight benefit for a full strength Mech Army's bang-for-the-buck, because a Mech Army needs only one Tank corps to get the Tank Tech firepower bonus, but higher Tank Tech decreases the bang-for-buck of a full strength Tank Army, because of the higher cost of its two Tank Corps.

This analysis does not factor-in the big up-front cost of advancing to a higher Technology Level, nor does it factor in the higher cost of building up HQ at higher Infantry Tech levels.

The higher costs don't look like a problem for Ships and Subs, because their increased costs at higher Tech levels are comparatively small. The higher costs for Fighters might be a problem.

I would either not advance unit costs at higher Tech Levels, or limit the higher cost of units at higher Tech Levels to their Tech Level 0 Costs + their Tech Level. E.g., a Tech Level 1 Infantry Corps would cost 30 + 1 = 31 MRP (not 35 MRP), a Tech Level 2 Infantry Corps 32 MRP (not 40 MRP), etc. A Tech Level 1 Fighter would cost 75 + 1 = 76 MRP, not 75 + 10 = 85 MRP, etc.


 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason Cawley
United States
Anthem
Arizona
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I agree that quantity pays firepower plus the ability to absorb hits. Quality does also have a stacking effect, though. You can't pile infinite corps into a hex, and only get to attack from one hex.

That force to space point aside, the other key aspect of tech is that it upgrades all your existing forces, without paying the extra cost fir each unit. You pay the tech level increase instead. It doesn't make sense to pay for multiple tech levels to upgrade one or two tank units. But when you already have 10 armies and 20 corps built and in action, improving all of them is a much better proposition. Yes, you'd like to mobilize them at the low tech cost first, and upgrade them after they are fielded, not the other way around. If you've fielded your whole force pool (minus corps needed to let armies take hits etc), tech is also the only way to expanded their power. The UK force pool is particularly small, for example - they don't have the option, realistically, of just buying endless corps and stacking them.

The other exception, to me, is tbe starting German tech choices. Taking one of them in air seem a no brainer, but infantry is the obvious third (subs required etc). You get tech benefits in ground combat only from armies, not corps, and all your starting armies are infantry. Yes you can get an armor bonus if the panzer corps is stacked with an infantry army, but in every such case you have an infantry army - and you will have the infantry army in other cases, too. In addition, the French and the Russians both start with tank tech, so it is cheaper to buy during the game (25 per level anyone else has discount). No urgency to match them there, because the French have few tank units and the Russians no armies (as well as being neutral).

On e the Germans get their panzer armies, they may want tank tech, and then get the benefit of both for those. Their strength is greater than their raw combat power as well, because of the extra advance and second combat phase benefits of armor, which they benefit from more than any other unit type. (A tank corps stacked with an infantry army can let the stack fight again in the second combat phase, but that requires a limited advance after the first combat, since the infantry only gets the defenders hex. If the tank corps goes farther, it loses hitting power and tech fir notnhaving an army. The mech armies keep full advance and full second combat phase hitting power.)


2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Griffey
United States
Houston
Texas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
It seems to me that Germany and USSR should put-off purchase of Infantry Tech until they've built-up their Infantry Armies.

Germany starts with 5x(3-3) and 1x(5-3) Infantry Armies and 5x(1-5) Infantry Corps, with 1x(5-3) Infantry Army and 30x(1-5) Infantry Corps in the Force Pool.

6x(5-3) German Infantry Armies become available to the Force Pool in the next 6 Turns (i.e., 9 months).

So that's 7x(5-3) German Infantry Armies @ 90 MRP each which need to be built, = 630 MRP or about 100 MRP per turn -- practically, all of German production.

If Germany on Turn 1 purchases Infantry Tech-1 @ 150 MRPS, that means two fewer (5-3) Infantry Armies and 1 fewer Infantry Corps, as 5x(5-3) Armies at 105 MRP each = 525 MRPS, + 150 MRPs for Infantry Tech = 675 MRPs.

And there are another 3x(5-3) Armies which join the Force Pool on Turn 12.

So, as Germany I would skip the Infantry Tech until after the Infantry build-up, and go with the mandatory Submarine Tech 1, and select Tank Tech 1, and select Fighter Tech 1.

-----------------------------------------

The USSR's anemic 40 MRP income 1939-1940 and small starting force of 10 Infantry Corps, zero Infantry Armies, can't justify going early to Infantry Tech 1. As USSR I would just build build build Infantry Corps and Armies until after Barbarossa, and only then go to Infantry Tech 1. USSR's better Infantry Armies (4-3s) don't begin to appear until Turn 17, two years after 1 September 1939. Also, it's only then that USSR Armies in USSR's Force Pool finally match the number of German Armies in Germany's Force Pool, and the USSR's Armies are much inferior. Ugh!


For my three free at start tech I
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason Cawley
United States
Anthem
Arizona
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Taking tank tech as one of the German starts is a bad idea. Yes you save a bit of the infantry build up cost over the first year of the war, but you then have to pay the full 150 for infantry tech, instead of having it for free from the get go, including its full use conquering Poland of the furst turn, winning the early fights for extra resource locations, etc. You are saving 125 on later tank tech - cheaper because the French and Russians both start with level 1. But you can defer that cost longer and be getting more +1 combat power benefits, because early you only have tank corps which need to stack with infantry armies to get any tech bonus anyway.

Also, you aren't going to build all 30 infantry corps in the force pool. You need some for army breakdowns on loss results, and can't soend every resource on infantry anyway, since you will want fighters, HQs, more tanks, eventually more subs, etc.

Yes you shoukd wait until after the main infantry build up to buy any additional infantry tech...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Adolfo perez
Spain
cornella de llobregat
barcelona
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yes, the inf tech would cost you 150 latter but only if no other country have purchased it before. If you do it first, then you are lowering its cost for UK and Russia. So it's +25 for germany but also -25 for UK or Russia.

Nevertheless I think It's a good idea to get inf as one of your free tech from the start. The alternatives are tank or ship, and these are worse (You don't have tank armies from the beginning and only one in 1940, but you have a lot of inf armies that can get the tech bonus benefit from the beginning).

The inf tech increases the cost of your corps by 16%, but also increases the combat factor for all your armies: a reduced 3-3 by 50% , the full 3-3 by 30%, the reduced 5-3 by 30% and the full 5-3 by 20%. It worth the cost.

This extra firepower will give you a column shift both in attack and defense, increasing the enemy loses and lowering yours. Also, this extra point could make the diference between taking Poland in one or two turns, at the invasion of France and so on. All of this would be translated in MSP savings.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.