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Onirim (second edition): Sphinx, Diver and Confusion Promo Cards» Forums » General

Subject: Where to find these promos rss

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Apparently only at conventions, I contacted Z-Man and got this reply:

Unfortunately, the Onirim promos will only be available in trade shows and conventions and will not be available elsewhere. I'm sorry that I am not able to help you further with this request.


I find this unacceptable, these promos allow for completely different games to be played with the 2nd release of Onirim and they should be available to EVERY OWNER of the game if they choose to buy these promo/mini expansions. So options for most of us will be buying at inflated prices from ebay sellers taking advantage of this bad policy. Shame on Z-Man games, I will not buy the 2nd edition due to this policy since I already own the first edition.
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steven riola

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mhuti wrote:
Apparently only at conventions, I contacted Z-Man and got this reply:

Unfortunately, the Onirim promos will only be available in trade shows and conventions and will not be available elsewhere. I'm sorry that I am not able to help you further with this request.


I find this unacceptable, these promos allow for completely different games to be played with the 2nd release of Onirim and they should be available to EVERY OWNER of the game if they choose to buy these promo/mini expansions. So options for most of us will be buying at inflated prices from ebay sellers taking advantage of this bad policy. Shame on Z-Man games, I will not buy the 2nd edition due to this policy since I already own the first edition.


Can we get an amen!

I already bought it when I found this out.

Not happy.
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Marco M
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thearkhammonk wrote:
mhuti wrote:
Apparently only at conventions, I contacted Z-Man and got this reply:

Unfortunately, the Onirim promos will only be available in trade shows and conventions and will not be available elsewhere. I'm sorry that I am not able to help you further with this request.


I find this unacceptable, these promos allow for completely different games to be played with the 2nd release of Onirim and they should be available to EVERY OWNER of the game if they choose to buy these promo/mini expansions. So options for most of us will be buying at inflated prices from ebay sellers taking advantage of this bad policy. Shame on Z-Man games, I will not buy the 2nd edition due to this policy since I already own the first edition.


Can we get an amen!

I already bought it when I found this out.

Not happy.

Amen. Really disappointed too.
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Tylor Lilley
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I loved the original edition but was so disappointed in this news I will not be buying the 2nd edition. If this news changes I will change my mind, as I was looking forward to it very much. But this is just unacceptable in this day and age.

I will be more than content with my first edition should this never change.
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Well I went to buy a box of a new brand of cereal only to find that all that was advertised was not in my box and that I would have to travel hundreds of miles and incur many hundreds of £/$ to get the rest of the cereal that should have been in my box to begin with. So how happy do you think I was about this? I got indigestion and changed my mind and went back to eating my old cereal instead. Oh, if only the cereal company had changed this policy perhaps we could all enjoy the new cereal's many new flavours in a less costly way. Maybe we could all then live happily ever after. The End.

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The 2 promo set cards for the 2nd edition allow you to play the game in 2 entirely different ways much like the other variants included in the 2nd edition box. These promos do not just add a little extra, there are two different ways to play the game that are not included in the box. Further more the designer has stated that this is the edition he would have liked to put out in the first place but could not for whatever reason. So why split up this game set and allow only some people to enjoy the designers definitive version of the game. This is not just sour grapes on my part, I do not think this is a good strategy and therefore I will not invest.

Furthermore what I have said about promos for good or bad in other threads on BGG has no bearing on this argument. Those other instances are to be judged on their own merits (which I stand by) and in their own context. Do I believe that every owner should get the opportunity to own the designers definitive edition of this game in it's entirety? Yes I do.

Edit: I am happy the two promo sets exist as they are a part of the game. However to restrict access to them is where the problem lies here. As an owner of Onirim I researched the 2nd edition and listened to the designer talking about this release on a Podcast and I was very interested to get the game. Is there more game in the 2nd edition without these promo expansion? Undoubtedly yes is the answer! But the game is not complete without the final additions of the promos. It is highly unlikely that this game will be expanded on anytime soon as the designer will be working on other releases in the same universe in the future. So why restrict access to a part of this game? It makes no sense to me at all and as a result I remain unhappy about this situation. By all means pick fault with my stance here but do you really believe this is a good situation for all possible customers of this game in the future? Or are you just arguing your point as a juxtaposition to my own.
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Richard Sampson
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jwreschnig wrote:
exactly the kind of thing that makes promos work in the first place. By having a "mandatory completionist" attitude, you only encourage publishers to behave in ways that drive up spending for completion, i.e. make exclusive promos.
Except the promos cost the publisher money to make, are usually limited run, and are often given away for free. The exaggerated prices are strictly in a secondary market independent of the publisher, providing them no benefit or money. Additionally this secondary market exists entirely because the demand is not being met (hence the high prices), and a large area of potential profit is being lost by the publisher. Things like the BGG store cut out the secondary market, and allow promos to exist while also meeting a large portion of the additional demand and benefiting the community.

If a company wants to do promos that is fine, but allow people to get them for supporting the company. Lots of companies have promos that they give away at events like Essen AND for buying directly from them. It works out great for everyone involved. Having promos that are made extremely limited and virtually impossible for most people to get on purpose does nothing other than alienate and screw over the very people who support you.
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Quote lifted from the article you mentioned:

The flip side of the consumer-king is an exceedingly loyal customer who will spend a ton of money on games one way or another. Even at the height of his righteous anger, he will probably only avoid one or two platforms or publishers out of spite. He might contribute toxicity or otherwise cause real problems for real human beings. But because of the way our system works, his desire to return to the pure happy consumption palace wins out over the other concerns. At the end of the day he puts money into the system by buying games, and that is the bottom line, the most important fact about him. He is a “gamer”.


This 'gamer' as described here is ill informed and rich and shows more signs of being an 'addict' than an informed gamer. I don't believe I am any different to many of the gamers I know who all have to spend wisely and are thrifty with their purchases. This does not make us 'consumer-kings' it marks us as 'reluctant consumers' in a world full of marketing campaigns, who (usually) only commit to a purchase if we are fairly sure we will be happy with our purchases. This is a small card game amongst many others, and as I stated in my first post I am happy to live without it given I own the 1st edition and the company's marketing stance on the 2nd edition.

As for 'cult of the new', I'm not sure this applies here since I am a pre-existing owner who is only primarily looking at the second edition because of the new content. If I am already happy with the original game and am looking at the new version specifically for the 'new' variants of play then what is wrong with this? This is standard 'gamer' psychology and it is not abnormal in any way that I can see here. My argument from the beginning has been about equal access not completion. I agree with most of what you have said in your last post about completionists which is why I refuse to engage with the marketing technique being employed here. How this marks me a whiner I am not sure. However I do also agree that this thread has become a whine-fest and as such I will disengage here.
 
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Richard Sampson
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jwreschnig wrote:
They are given away for free to get people to talk about the game, to come to their booth at conventions, and to generalize raise the game's profile on sites that are obsessive about this kind of thing
If this was actually the goal, they wouldn't give them to people who don't care at all about the product, and they would make an effort to support sites like BGG instead of ebay and people who exploit the system.

jwreschnig wrote:
That the exaggerated prices of the promos per se is a feature of the secondary market doesn't mean the publisher gets no benefit; it means they successfully sold a copy to someone whose primary goal was to flip the game on the secondary market. That customer would not have existed if people weren't so obsessed with the promos
What you just said is quite literally, "We care more about selling a few extra units via promos than about making the majority of our real customer's happy and satisfied."
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Jānis Rudzītis
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This is one of my favorite „Onirim” expansions. I don’t understand why it wasn’t included in the 2nd edition. Here is my solution how to play if you don’t have original promo cards of the expansion:
4 Sphinx cards=4 Lost Dream cards from „The Dreamcathers”
4 Diver cards= 4 Happy Dream cards from „Happy Dreams and Dark Premonitions”
4 Confusion cards= 4 Dead End cards from „Crossroads and Dead Ends”
2 extra Nightmare cards= 2 Architect cards from „The Door to the Oniverse”
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baltaistehws wrote:
This is one of my favorite „Onirim” expansions. I don’t understand why it wasn’t included in the 2nd edition. Here is my solution how to play if you don’t have original promo cards of the expansion:
4 Sphinx cards=4 Lost Dream cards from „The Dreamcathers”
4 Diver cards= 4 Happy Dream cards from „Happy Dreams and Dark Premonitions”
4 Confusion cards= 4 Dead End cards from „Crossroads and Dead Ends”
2 extra Nightmare cards= 2 Architect cards from „The Door to the Oniverse”

Awesome, I'm going to try this!

Thanks!
-Rachel
 
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Kyle Currie
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Hey all, I sent an email to Z-Man games the other day and got a response back this morning in regards to the promos for BOTH Sylvion AND Onirim!:

Z-Man Games wrote:
Hello Kyle,

As you mentioned, the promo cards are available at conventions. We are working on updating our website and making the promos available there. But first, we have to fix issues with shipping costs that are WAY to high for a few little cards, so one that is fixed and the website is updated, you will be able to purchase the promos there

Have a great day,
ZMG


I didn't include the name of the person who responded so they don't get bombarded, but it appears they're going to make them available in the near future!

I guess they got enough requests from us, haha
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Tylor Lilley
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Oh, I hope that's true. That would be such great news! Thank you for reporting back here with it.
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WARNING: I broke the first rulz of da internets and posted the exact thing somewhere else:

I also exchanged emails with the publisher. They do not need to "fix" shipping costs. The solution is simple and they really do not need to figure out anything complicated.

All they need to do is require the purchase of a boxed game with a minimum cost and/or size on their website to open up a link to purchase ride along promos. In other words, to get the Onirim and Sylvion promos all you need to do is buy one of the two games mentioned or bigger. Throwing in a dozen promos will not add to the cost of shipping. They could even charge $1-$2 dollars per promo set if they really need to cover "handling" costs.

I presented this solution to them as a response to their stock answer and never heard back. How do companies survive in the world when they cannot even figure out simple solutions like this, unless they really do not give a crap?!?!
 
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Tokhuah wrote:
WARNING: I broke the first rulz of da internets and posted the exact thing somewhere else:

I also exchanged emails with the publisher. They do not need to "fix" shipping costs. The solution is simple and they really do not need to figure out anything complicated.

All they need to do is require the purchase of a boxed game with a minimum cost and/or size on their website to open up a link to purchase ride along promos. In other words, to get the Onirim and Sylvion promos all you need to do is buy one of the two games mentioned or bigger. Throwing in a dozen promos will not add to the cost of shipping. They could even charge $1-$2 dollars per promo set if they really need to cover "handling" costs.

I presented this solution to them as a response to their stock answer and never heard back. How do companies survive in the world when they cannot even figure out simple solutions like this, unless they really do not give a crap?!?!


Because some of us already bought all the omniverse games and don't want to buy another copy as punishment for not waiting
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Clarification: I did not say you had to buy the base game. You could buy any game with a footprint large enough so as not to create an additional expense by including the promos (Pandemic, Carcassone, Robinson Crusoe, etc). My suggestion is all about setting up a general business practice not attached to this specific issue.

It would cost them next to nothing to start offering the promos this way. This is an immediate stop-gap until they "figure out" how to get them to people through BGG or some other method. Besides, wouldn't you expect to gain access promos if you bought directly from the manufacturer rather than Coolstuff, or some other discount seller? It just seems like common sense...
 
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Tokhuah wrote:
Clarification: I did not say you had to buy the base game. You could buy any game with a footprint large enough so as not to create an additional expense by including the promos (Pandemic, Carcassone, Robinson Crusoe, etc). My suggestion is all about setting up a general business practice not attached to this specific issue.

It would cost them next to nothing to start offering the promos this way. This is an immediate stop-gap until they "figure out" how to get them to people through BGG or some other method. Besides, wouldn't you expect to gain access promos if you bought directly from the manufacturer rather than Coolstuff, or some other discount seller? It just seems like common sense...


I could easily be that their webshop solution doesn't support this functionality.
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LOL, I have a 16 year old intern who could add that level of functionality to our web presence if needed.

I would not tolerate such lame excuses that includes "can't" or "it does not work that way" in my division. If it does not work the way it should to serve the best interest of the customer my staff better come up with a solution.



I am not expecting any more or less from Zman than I do of myself or the 98.6 FTE's that work under me.
 
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Tokhuah wrote:
Clarification: I did not say you had to buy the base game. You could buy any game with a footprint large enough so as not to create an additional expense by including the promos (Pandemic, Carcassone, Robinson Crusoe, etc).


I'd prefer to order just the promos, rather than pay international postage for a large boxed game - but I'd consider it, if it was the only way to get them.

As you say they should be able to work out how to send some promos to the BGG shop, or adjust their website options. If they are giving them out free at conventions then selling them at a profit can't be a priority.

However it happens, I hope to be able to order them soon.
 
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Ditto Nick,

If you live in the UK or anywhere else in the world other than the US we will end up paying heavily for any game when you add in the increased shipping and customs charges. This has the tendency to double the cost of a game for us in the UK and I know others in Europe who have similar problems. So for us this is not a viable option, thanks for the input though. This will no doubt help some other BBG users.


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Melissa the Gnome
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Did anyone get these at GenCon? I was given the Mirrors promos, but no other promos.
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Sebastian Zarzycki
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I have a one set of these I could part with. I have no idea what these are worth, given the rarity, so if someone is interested, PM me. Please keep in mind, that I would ship from Poland.
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GM sent!
 
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nickbolton wrote:
Tokhuah wrote:
Clarification: I did not say you had to buy the base game. You could buy any game with a footprint large enough so as not to create an additional expense by including the promos (Pandemic, Carcassone, Robinson Crusoe, etc).


I'd prefer to order just the promos, rather than pay international postage for a large boxed game - but I'd consider it, if it was the only way to get them.

As you say they should be able to work out how to send some promos to the BGG shop, or adjust their website options. If they are giving them out free at conventions then selling them at a profit can't be a priority.

However it happens, I hope to be able to order them soon.


Z-Man already knows how to sell promos and mini-expansions via the Geekstore -- The Geekstore sells promos to 7 Wonders and Babel, Pandemic, Zooloretto, etc., they've sold others in the past, so that's not the barrier. I guess they're choosing to make them exclusive to cons as a marketing tool, it definitely gets a few people to their booth who might not be there otherwise.

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I would be interested in buying one set of Onirim promos if anyone has them in spare.
 
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