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Subject: Eclipse vs Clash of Cultures vs Exodus: Proxima Centauri rss

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Justin Brauchler
United States
Mansfield
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I am interested in a game that somewhat resembles Twilight Imperium (Third Edition), but can be tackled under 3 hours and playable with at least 2 players.

I heard that Eclipse and Clash of Cultures are very similar. I am interested in tech trees and many different ships/army pieces that you can build and advances you can research especially any defensive structures like turrets or missiles(somewhat resembling Ages of Empires or Command and Conquer: Red Alert for the PC). A bonus would be exploration and the "fog of war" effect.

I understand that a board game can never fully replicate Twilight Imperium (Third Edition) in under 3 hours, but I may have to resort in just buying TI3 and trying the shorter 2-player variants.

Other suggestions are welcome as well, I was very interested in Exodus: Proxima Centauri but I feel that maybe it just doesn't seem to be anywhere close to TI3.

Any suggestions welcome, thanks!
 
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Samuel Hinz
Australia
Brisbane
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I've got what you're looking for!!!
justinbrauchler wrote:
I am interested in a game that somewhat resembles Twilight Imperium (Third Edition), but can be tackled under 3 hours and playable with at least 2 players.

I heard that Eclipse and Clash of Cultures are very similar. I am interested in tech trees and many different ships/army pieces that you can build and advances you can research especially any defensive structures like turrets or missiles(somewhat resembling Ages of Empires or Command and Conquer: Red Alert for the PC). A bonus would be exploration and the "fog of war" effect.


Check
Check
Check
Check
Check
Check

The game you are looking for is Space Empires: 4X. The only thing all the other games you mentioned have that space empires does not is plastic pieces. Hopefully this is not a deal breaker, because it seems like this game is exactly what you are after. Especially after mentioning combat heavy games like AOE and CC:RA.

The fog of war and tech tree in this game is awesome.
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Jo Bartok
Germany
Zwingenberg
Hessen
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Interaction leads to Immersion.
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Eclipse is just a boring and luck driven euro in disguise of a 4x
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Shane Larsen
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Salt Lake City
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ionas wrote:
Eclipse is just a boring and luck driven Ameritrash game in disguise of a 4X/Euro.

FTFY.
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XO_rocinante
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Fürth
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ionas wrote:
Eclipse is just a boring and luck driven euro in disguise of a 4x


"luck driven".. I call bullshit. You make it sound like Eclipse is a variant of King of Tokyo in Space. There is just a minor luck aspect regarding the technology and combat token draw. But seriously.. in about 12 games so far my group never had a problem with it. If you're focussing on an aggressive playstyle and therefor destroying lots of ships you will draw more tokens than your opponent. If you want to research a specific technology early on and it isn't available.. yeah.. that sucks.. I'll give you that. But after round #2 or #3 there's always lots of stuff on the technology track and you can adapt your strategy pretty easily. Overall Eclipse brings nearly everything to the table what you're looking for Justin. Except the fog of war. It's a more "euro-y" approach to the playstyle of Twilight Imperium 3 and maybe not the 8th best game of all time.. but definitely worth checking out. It was a huge hit for my group and I normally play more ameritrash than eurogames. Nevertheless I'm excited what people are writing about Clash of Cultures. It's been on my wishlist for a long time.
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Ruud
Netherlands
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I haven't played Clash of Cultures or Eclipse, but I've played TI:3 and Exodus Proxima.

Exodus Proxima does a good job at a being a 4X game. Voting/Diplomacy is there in its most essential form. The combat works fine, although a little differentiation with dice would've been nice. Resources and tech are there and lead to interesting choices.

The only really wonky part were the missiles for me and movement. This can be remedied by simply not using the tokens, but using a write-down sheet or something. One big problem I have with Exodus is that there are no races, that players are identical. This is remedied by the announced expansion that should hit stores in 2015. I am also no big fan of the artwork on the planets, but I guess Eclipse is not that much better looking. I just liked the old planet artwork for Exodus better.
 
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Jesse
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laexpls wrote:
ionas wrote:
Eclipse is just a boring and luck driven euro in disguise of a 4x


"luck driven".. I call bullshit. You make it sound like Eclipse is a variant of King of Tokyo in Space. There is just a minor luck aspect regarding the technology and combat token draw. But seriously.. in about 12 games so far my group never had a problem with it. If you're focussing on an aggressive playstyle and therefor destroying lots of ships you will draw more tokens than your opponent. If you want to research a specific technology early on and it isn't available.. yeah.. that sucks.. I'll give you that. But after round #2 or #3 there's always lots of stuff on the technology track and you can adapt your strategy pretty easily. Overall Eclipse brings nearly everything to the table what you're looking for Justin. Except the fog of war. It's a more "euro-y" approach to the playstyle of Twilight Imperium 3 and maybe not the 8th best game of all time.. but definitely worth checking out. It was a huge hit for my group and I normally play more ameritrash than eurogames. Nevertheless I'm excited what people are writing about Clash of Cultures. It's been on my wishlist for a long time.


I think the reference to luck is about all of the dice rolling. I agree with the other poster on this. The other luck sources other than the maybe random time draw (though, generally not a huge deal) are pretty common to Euros. However, lucky dice rolls can swing the game. You could make the argument that there is enough dice rolling in the game, that it balances out. However, that is a very narrow perspective of luck. Clearly, some encounters and dice rolls are significantly more important and game changing than others. If you're unlucky on those, you're screwed by dumb random luck. At that point, it doesn't matter if your future rolls balance out that poor look--you're already in a hole trying to climb out.

I've seen games swung in big ways due to bad dice rolls, even when the odds looked greatly in the favor in the player who ended up screwed.


It's still a decent game. But for these reasons, I would not categorize it as a Euro, especially coupled with all of the direct conflict.
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XO_rocinante
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But the OP loves TI3 and it has the same dice rolling combat system like Eclipse. So I don't think that would make a huge difference.
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Jesse
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laexpls wrote:
But the OP loves TI3 and it has the same dice rolling combat system like Eclipse. So I don't think that would make a huge difference.


I totally agree. I was just making the case that it's not a Euro. I will say that Eclipse is not particularly fun with only two players. Clash if Cultures might be the somewhat better bet there. None are great with two, however.
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Brian Korreck
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Our group prefers Eclipse to Clash of Cultures. With Eclipse managing the tech advances is much easier because it is done with icons on a tile. Very simple. CoC requires you to read a few sentences for each tech. Early in the game thus isn't a big deal, but as you gain advances reading each tech and cross checking it with another becomes laborious. Both are a blast to play.
 
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Galen Iliev
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I do agree Eclipse has too much luck involved. Its not the dice that bother me, since a game can easily finish without any major battles.

The luck is in which tile you draw and which sciences come up(and when). In a game only 1 Orbital came up and I was lucky enough to snatch it up. Finished way way ahead of everybody else.

Also it takes 2 bad starting exploring tiles to make it close to impossible to win the game.

Its a rare occasion but it happens.
Then again I am the guy that got a 6 and a 4 6 times in roll at Castles of Burgundy.

As for the possible passive play for Eclipse you can always house rule that a person must have won specific amount of battles before game's end (vs player or AI) otherwise penalty...
 
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Michael nut
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My group loves both these games (Clash and Eclipse) and will happily play them at any time. Clash is a better game in my opinion (maybe because it's mine) as there feels like there's more depth and more going on in the game. Eclipse while fun is more about resource management and working out whether you can afford you moves. PLaying with the alien races also pre determines your path to victory and if you get the wrong starting tiles its quite hard to catch up. You can alleviate this by playing human races (or if you like this by picking up the civilisations expansion for Clash). Clash is a shorter game with closer to three hour playtime and more variety in your tech tree. It does finish in the Middle Ages so if you're after missiles etc this May not be the game for you. Eclipse is more about pimping your spaceships. You'll enjoy either but I'd pick Clash, you've already got a space 4X...
 
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Silver Robert
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You could also try Runewars, it's somewhat similar to TI3 except it lacks the tech tree.
 
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