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7 Wonders: Babel» Forums » Rules

Subject: Participating in Great Projects vs. Debts from Cities cards rss

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Derek Thompson
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I intend to pay coins to participate in the Great Project, and on the same round, someone pays a card that causes, say, a 3-value Debt. This may make me want to change my mind about Participating, so that I can pay coins on the debt. In what order do these things/decisions happen?
 
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Bryan Doughty
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From the Cities rule book: "Important: monetary losses are always resolved at the end of a turn, after players have played their cards, possibly having paid for trade and/or obtained money..." (4).

From the Babel rule book: "...when a player constructs a building of the same color as the Great Project card in play...,that player has the option to participate in its construction. To do that, the player must pay the participation cost in addition to the cost of their building." (6).

Participation in a Great Project has a cost that is added to the construction cost. Costs are paid before the effects of a construction are resolved. All monetary loss effects are resolved at end of turn.

In general players should not be waiting to make decisions regarding what/how to play after learning the intentions of their opponents. It defeats the intent of simultaneous play. Which card to play, how to play it, and how to pay for it should be made simultaneous with your opponents. It is an unfair advantage for any player allowed to do otherwise. If an opponent has already chosen to construct something with a broken coin your only choice should be whether or not to pay coin or collect debt. That choice will be made at the end of turn after seeing what money you may still have available.
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Derek Thompson
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bryanldoughty wrote:
From the Cities rule book: "Important: monetary losses are always resolved at the end of a turn, after players have played their cards, possibly having paid for trade and/or obtained money..." (4).

From the Babel rule book: "...when a player constructs a building of the same color as the Great Project card in play...,that player has the option to participate in its construction. To do that, the player must pay the participation cost in addition to the cost of their building." (6).

Participation in a Great Project has a cost that is added to the construction cost. Costs are paid before the effects of a construction are resolved. All monetary loss effects are resolved at end of turn.

In general players should not be waiting to make decisions regarding what/how to play after learning the intentions of their opponents. It defeats the intent of simultaneous play. Which card to play, how to play it, and how to pay for it should be made simultaneous with your opponents. It is an unfair advantage for any player allowed to do otherwise. If an opponent has already chosen to construct something with a broken coin your only choice should be whether or not to pay coin or collect debt. That choice will be made at the end of turn after seeing what money you may still have available.


Yep, I see it now. Thanks!
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Just think of it like one of those 1 coin brown cards. You pretty much dumped the 1 coin into the bank once you picked that brown card.

Same logic with participation. The only difference was that paying the participation cost was optional, but the timing for the decision to do so is the same time that you picked the eligible color.

Unfortunately this also makes it possible for people to "forget" participating and such, so the timing can be convoluted even if people play as honestly as possible (especially with babel tiles out).
 
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Mark Maginity
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Would it help matters to have everyone announce their Great Project intentions simultaneously before cards are flipped? Alternatively, everyone has two small pieces of paper, one saying "Great Project", the other saying "No Great Project", one of which gets slipped under the card the player selects and is then revealed when the card is played. This may be getting complicated, but perhaps some would find the additional complication worth it if it ends up reinforcing simultaneous play and reducing confusion and the ability to manipulate results.
 
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Mark Maginity
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The same issue (along with possible ways of handling the situation) is also being discussed on this thread.
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