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Dungeons & Dragons: Attack Wing» Forums » General

Subject: Catapults little too tough rss

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James

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Played several games vs the catapults and though they are not invincible they feel too overpowered to me... Range 4 every attack just owns the map... I know their movement is slow but with such range u don't need it.

Think they would be better balanced as a 2 range or. 4 range but fewer attack dice...

Just my thoughts!

Love the game!
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David Lockwood
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Hey James! I was hosting the OP at The Wandering Dragon!

That 5 attack dice is tough to beat. They don't get to roll evade dice though and they only have 2 armor (until you get to the named one).

I don't remember did you have to fight against Dan's 3 Ballista and Giant team?

EDIT:

Here's my thoughts on that event we did if you want to chime in!

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1270675/price-knowledge-and-...
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Andrew Parks
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Don't worry, in Wave 2, the ballista swarm will learn to (literally!) fear the dragons. devil
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Peter Cooper
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StormbringerGT wrote:
They don't get to roll evade dice though and they only have 2 armor (until you get to the named one).

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1270675/price-knowledge-and-...

The normal ballistae only have 1 armour, and the 'named one' (Calamity) has 2.
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Donald
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Don't forget the extra defense die at range four.
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Peter Cooper
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Donald wrote:
Don't forget the extra defense die at range four.


That's not armour. And everyone has it (so war machines can dodge!)
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Jeremy
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Speed kills. If you can rush from 5 to 2 in one turn, you will wreck a ballista. It's not that hard to do either. Any dragon can do it, Frost Giants can do it. With Swift strike on a frost giant, rush up 3, take charge. Do a 5 dice attack and and swift strike right past him. Even a normal frost giant is higher initiative than Calamity, which means Calamity or the ballista will never get a shot. Frost Giant with swift strike is cheap too, so very cost effective. Next you can either pivot and hit him again or sprint right/left and charge again to get out of his range.

In my opinion he is the most effective counter to Calamity out there. A fast dragon can do something similar, I just feel that his very cost effective with that ability.

Ballistas have their weaknesses, it's just a matter of taking advantage.
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Scourn1
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Agree on just about everything said above. One note is it still gets a shot. Not at the giant that moved past, but still a shot somewhere. Now you could set it up to where you have no one in 4 of it, but I think thats a hard thing to do.
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Jeremy
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scourn1 wrote:
Agree on just about everything said above. One note is it still gets a shot. Not at the giant that moved past, but still a shot somewhere. Now you could set it up to where you have no one in 4 of it, but I think thats a hard thing to do.


Depends on where they set it up, but it's really not that difficult. Either getting out of his angle arc or not close enough is a pretty easy thing to do in this game.

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James

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Sounds easy... But I have seenany different players try it and fail... Pivot more mobile then a turn and the attack dice are sick
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James

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StormbringerGT wrote:
Hey James! I was hosting the OP at The Wandering Dragon!

That 5 attack dice is tough to beat. They don't get to roll evade dice though and they only have 2 armor (until you get to the named one).

I don't remember did you have to fight against Dan's 3 Ballista and Giant team?

EDIT:

Here's my thoughts on that event we did if you want to chime in!

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1270675/price-knowledge-and-...



Dave... U did great!!!! U are a stud at this!
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Scourn1
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Rocky123 wrote:
Sounds easy... But I have seenany different players try it and fail... Pivot more mobile then a turn and the attack dice are sick


I'll have to agree that it is not as easy as it seems. You dont rush it up the middle, so with the held back its 4 range arc covers quite a bit of the board. Yea you can avoid it, but then really its making its points back by forcing you to move where you dont want to out of fear.

Pivot is more mobile for sure, but then your really crippling it. Anything gets +1 dice to attack the ballista and it wont get an action. Rerolls or converting eyes to hits is what really makes it scary with all those dice. Taking that away hurts it
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@Andrew Parks, Does that mean we will see the second wave soon Like first week of Dec.? and is there any chance that wave 2 and 3 will both be seen in Dec?
 
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James Resner
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I have to agree. At the event I attended on the 14th the guy who ran the 3 ballista and giant build simply slaughtered everyone.

I'm sure there are ways to counter it but it would be either extremely slow and/or extremely boring.

I'm very disappointed that this kind of massive OP imbalance exists at release - I'm really hoping that WK puts more effort into balance so that D&D:AW doesn't turn into a FOTM min/max build type game.

 
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C. E. Freeman
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Rochambeaux wrote:
I have to agree. At the event I attended on the 14th the guy who ran the 3 ballista and giant build simply slaughtered everyone.

I'm sure there are ways to counter it but it would be either extremely slow and/or extremely boring.

I'm very disappointed that this kind of massive OP imbalance exists at release - I'm really hoping that WK puts more effort into balance so that D&D:AW doesn't turn into a FOTM min/max build type game.



I have to disagree. It's way too early to declare a massive OP imbalance at release. If I understand you correctly, you're basing this on a 1st place finish at the OP event you attended and a 2nd place finish of a similar build at another event. I think we would be well served to base such a claim on more than 2 results, especially since one wasn't even a first place finish.
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Scourn1
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Andrew Parks wrote:
Don't worry, in Wave 2, the ballista swarm will learn to (literally!) fear the dragons. devil


Before anyone claims its imbalanced, please read above. sure it can be good and hard to get away from, but there are a lot of ways and things to do to kill it. Plus when the Shadow Dragon comes out, as Andrew stated it will proably have some fear spell or effect to make them turn around or run
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Jay Kirkman
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On one side of the forums, we have "Troops: what are they good for?"

On another side of the forums, we have "how do you take down a Ballista?"

Hmm...
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Will Sanchez
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Problem with Troops vs Ballista is:

2 Ballista > named 6 Troop

single Ballista shoots before generic 6 troop.

With the Morale Check and the fact that troops are actually weakened every time they're hit before they attack, ballista strength is winning.

You could try 4 sets of hobgoblin troops of course, but who the heck is going to buy that many? especially when none of the current troops have any armor piercing?
 
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Jean-Philippe Thériault
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Rochambeaux wrote:


I'm very disappointed that this kind of massive OP imbalance exists at release - I'm really hoping that WK puts more effort into balance so that D&D:AW doesn't turn into a FOTM min/max build type game.



This is not an imbalance, this is metagaming. Wishing for a game not to have optimal builds ("FOTM min/max build") is wishing for a game that does not exist, and cannot exist. If this bothers you, then you should stick to kitchen tables. Tournaments aren't for you.
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Jay Kirkman
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delta_angelfire wrote:
Problem with Troops vs Ballista is:

2 Ballista > named 6 Troop

single Ballista shoots before generic 6 troop.

With the Morale Check and the fact that troops are actually weakened every time they're hit before they attack, ballista strength is winning.

You could try 4 sets of hobgoblin troops of course, but who the heck is going to buy that many? especially when none of the current troops have any armor piercing?


That’s one of the things I’m really enjoying about this game, it’s not straight-up rock-paper-scissors. That type of game design does enable a certain kind of balance (see: Magic’s aggro-midrange-control wheel), but there’s a lot of opportunity for nuance here, especially early on as the meta is only just beginning.

The spread-out health of a Troop is both a source of strength as well as vulnerability, depending on the circumstances. In this case- going after a Ballista- they’re a bit more resilient to being one-shotted. Of course there are going to be bad beats stories where a point solider is taken out and the controlling player rolls a number of crits- that can happen. But in general, Troops have a few tools in the arsenal to effectively deal with Calamity and his mates.

Scatter is typically thought of as a hedge against Dragon breath, where it’s great- but it also protects against Rapid Reload’s extra strike. Juggernaut Mantlet gives two free Dodges, while Displacement also serves to help weather an initial assault. Limnen can help keep Troop strength up against a loss. Reassemble can move a Point soldier out of a firing arc. First Strike lets you get every bit of that Troop strength to bear against a Ballista without having to fear attrition taking the punch out of your Elves or Hobgoblins. With 0 Agility, the only thing protecting Ballistae is armor, and even then you’ve got a potential answer in Elven Accuracy (though Calamity remains a nut tougher still to crack thanks to his resistance to conventional armor piercing). The iconic Troops each have access to a spell slot (Zhents with Amog), and there are answers there, too, like Shield and Prayer. If you’re expecting to encounter lots of Ballistae in your meta, some of these options are worth bearing in mind.

There are loads of potential scenarios here that go above the obvious single-unit versus single-unit. Will a pair of Ballistae cause some problems? Of course, they’re designed to! But then, that’s where tactics come in. Maybe focusing fire on my Harpers isn’t such a great idea when Balagos is screaming in with his breath at the ready. Maybe you’ll have to shoot through my Frost Giant to hit my Point soldier, forfeiting an attack die due to concealment. There aren’t any magic bullets here, but there are answers. Finding them is half the fun.
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Peter Cooper
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I don't think the problem is 'massive', but it's inevitable with a game that has the capacity to create loads of new upgrades and characters, that people will put high powered combinations together. It's not OP, it's not broken, it is just part of the game. It's also fun, but if you don't like it, you can agree with your opponents either not to use Calamity, only the standard Ballista, and not to use more than one per build. In my case, I like lower powered games - but it's easy for me, because I own the game and lend out to my opponents.

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Scourn1
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Well the Elves have an upgrade to go through armor. Not super effective but its something, and it makes sense
 
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Jay Kirkman
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scourn1 wrote:
Well the Elves have an upgrade to go through armor. Not super effective but its something, and it makes sense


It works against generic Ballistae, just not Calamity.
 
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James Resner
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Stephanie Baynes wrote:
I don't think the problem is 'massive', but it's inevitable with a game that has the capacity to create loads of new upgrades and characters, that people will put high powered combinations together. It's not OP, it's not broken, it is just part of the game. It's also fun, but if you don't like it, you can agree with your opponents either not to use Calamity, only the standard Ballista, and not to use more than one per build. In my case, I like lower powered games - but it's easy for me, because I own the game and lend out to my opponents.



I don't see how anyone running the Giant + 3 ballista (G3B) build could possible lose against any other build possible at this stage unless the person playing the G3B had no idea about the mechanics of the game.

I agree that a very clever/skilled player going against a clueless player running G3B could win but otherwise someone would have to get some very lucky rolls.
 
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Jean-Philippe Thériault
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Rochambeaux wrote:
I don't see how anyone running the Giant + 3 ballista (G3B) build could possible lose against any other build possible at this stage unless the person playing the G3B had no idea about the mechanics of the game.

I agree that a very clever/skilled player going against a clueless player running G3B could win but otherwise someone would have to get some very lucky rolls.


Outswarm them?

My new punk band's name: Eshaedra and the Suicide Bombers
http://build.dndaw.com/link/NzAyOjcwOToxMTgsNzAyOjExODo3MDks...
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