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1944: Race to the Rhine» Forums » Rules

Subject: The take trucks problem. rss

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Blazing Apostle
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I posted a question about the take trucks action which opened a good few people to realise they had been playing the game wrong. The reason I posted was because of this situation I came across in a 3 player game.
So its first turn and the order is Monty, Brad, then Patton.

Monty takes action of taking trucks( All of them ) setting off supply check.
All three players pay one food.
Monty takes 3 food for second action.
Brad Takes Trucks for his first action ( All of Them )
Monty can`t pay food all corps grounded.
Patton cannot pay food all corps grounded.
Brad takes food for second action.
Patton Takes trucks for first action ( all of them )
Monty, Brad and Patton Corps all grounded as none can pay food.
Patton`s second action is to swear and curse both Monty and Brad and end up having to take food.
This situation did occur and caused what we termed `Rhine Out` whereby it was a real grind to get anywhere near a town, let alone a river.
Of course I still believe this kind of thing is fixable due to all the great comments so far by the designer, etc but I thought it worth mentioning.
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Barry Miller
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Hey thanks for the discussion! The only problem with your example of play is that it's not possible (assuming it is indeed the first turn as you stipulated).

Here's why it's not possible:
- On the first action of the game, the most trucks any player can take is three. Hence no Supply Check right out of the gate.

- All players start the game with six trucks in their personal truck pool.
- Each players truck pool limit at the start of the game is nine trucks.

So for the first action of the game, it's impossible for a player to take six trucks. Also, Monty and Patton start the game at Logistics level 1... So even IF they were to PLACE TRUCKS for their first action (for argument's sake - what would they transport?), the most they could place is two trucks while in level 1. Doing so would leave them with four trucks in their pool... which means the most they could take in this illustrative scenario, is only five trucks - so not to bust their personal pool truck limit. This would still leave a truck in the Truck Stock.

So while it's entirely possible for a Supply Check to occur on the 2nd turn of the first round, it's not possible on the first turn.

But the greater point you're raising is a good one!

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Blazing Apostle
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Thanks Barry...the thread I put on was a first game without us knowing what the hell we were doing, so we stopped and re-started..read the rules again and vollah..all became clear as you state..but there still seems the discussion which I started with a question about taking trucks, with the designer saying you have to take all the trucks should you choose the take trucks action..which seems to be the confusing element. I know that he is in discussion with others about clearing this rule up. This no way detracts me personally from the game which I am really impressed by.
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Jaro Andruszkiewicz
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I was once told by Kevin Zucker, that games never get stop 'designed' they only got 'published', so while the game was published, I keep my freedom of tinkering with the rules to make the game even better

We are all really glad you guys like the game, so thank you for support! We hope to bring you some more goodies to add to the game. The works started on the additional solitaire scenario employing all three generals.
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Blazing Apostle
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Now that sounds great...count me in for that I assure you.
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Tim Earl
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"People realized they had been playing the game wrong?"

If you're referring to taking fewer than the maximum amount of trucks, that is not the case. People were playing in accordance with the rules. (One of the examples in the rulebook even has a player take less than the max amount.)

Now one of the designers has said that's not what he meant, but that is what was published.
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Jaro Andruszkiewicz
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Yes, please play as per published rules.

I thought you guys were geeks and want to interact and discuss possibilities but it seems you are just boring rules lawyers modest cool kiss
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Tim Earl
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el comandante wrote:
Yes, please play as per published rules.

I thought you guys were geeks and want to interact and discuss possibilities but it seems you are just boring rules lawyers modest cool kiss


Well, I thought the decision about leaving one truck so someone has to waste an action was pretty neat, so I assumed it was intentional.

I just took exception to be told I was "playing the game wrong" by following the rules. I hate rules lawyers as much as the next guy, but this one doesn't seem to cross that threshold, since it's specifically mentioned (in an example).
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Jaro Andruszkiewicz
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Understood. And that was the intention to be able to leave that one truck, so the other guy has to waste an action. If it is becoming a standard play, however, then the games moves in unwanted direction. I hope you understand.

The same situation (forcing someone to take 1 truck and trigger supply check) could be also achieved in proposed variant but it is more difficult and requires more planning. And it is more of a trade-off too. If you analyze the game flow, you'd probably arrive at the same observation.
 
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Tim Earl
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Thanks for the insight. I only recently picked this up and have played it once, so we haven't seen it become a problem. I suppose if someone consistently did that, I'd be annoyed, but they are hurting themselves a little bit.

It's like the minority shareholder building track to nowhere in Chicago Express. If people did it all the time, it would be no fun at all, but as an occasional tactic, it's fine.
 
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Steve K
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bgm1961 wrote:

Hey thanks for the discussion! The only problem with your example of play is that it's not possible (assuming it is indeed the first turn as you stipulated).

Here's why it's not possible:
- On the first action of the game, the most trucks any player can take is three. Hence no Supply Check right out of the gate.

- All players start the game with six trucks in their personal truck pool.
- Each players truck pool limit at the start of the game is nine trucks.

So for the first action of the game, it's impossible for a player to take six trucks. Also, Monty and Patton start the game at Logistics level 1... So even IF they were to PLACE TRUCKS for their first action (for argument's sake - what would they transport?), the most they could place is two trucks while in level 1. Doing so would leave them with four trucks in their pool... which means the most they could take in this illustrative scenario, is only five trucks - so not to bust their personal pool truck limit. This would still leave a truck in the Truck Stock.

So while it's entirely possible for a Supply Check to occur on the 2nd turn of the first round, it's not possible on the first turn.

But the greater point you're raising is a good one!



No I don't see how you explained this. Clearly you can take 6 trucks from the Allied Truck Stock. Truck draw is clearly shown as 6/6/8 on the Truck draw. The setup says the 'Allied Truck Stock Chart' starts with 6 trucks. Nowhere is it mentioned players begin with 6 trucks in a 'personal pool'. That would be useful information in a rulebook.

So as far as I can tell, taking the trucks and triggering the Supply Check Interphase immediately after setup seems to be correct. At which point the game went back into the box rather than discover all the bugs.


Can someone tell me how the trucks work in this game. They seem to be the central theme so it might help.
 
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Barry Miller
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Knewt wrote:
Nowhere is it mentioned players begin with 6 trucks in a 'personal pool'. That would be useful information in a rulebook.

I'm traveling now so don't have the rulebook handy, but I believe the setup instructions do say that each player starts with 6 trucks.

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Rusty McFisticuffs
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Knewt wrote:
Nowhere is it mentioned players begin with 6 trucks in a 'personal pool'. That would be useful information in a rulebook.

End of second paragraph under "Setting up the game": "Each player places his markers, his air support marker, and 6 trucks near these cards."
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Steve K
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kuhrusty wrote:
Knewt wrote:
Nowhere is it mentioned players begin with 6 trucks in a 'personal pool'. That would be useful information in a rulebook.

End of second paragraph under "Setting up the game": "Each player places his markers, his air support marker, and 6 trucks near these cards."


Mea culpa! Thanks! : )
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Alessandro Trovato
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"...and 6 trucks near these cards."

I missed this point too at the first game, confused with a single generic pool available for future use during the game.
And obviously the scarcity of trucks was a nightmare.
I suspect this should be better specified with a classic "each player starts with 6 trucks" and not request our tired minds to speculate about proximity


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