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Subject: Fine Rules rss

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Jo Bartok
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Quote:
The spaces that share an edge with a door are the only
spaces that are considered to be adjacent to that door. When declaring a P (melee) attack targeting a door, the attacker must be in one of those spaces.


Is this the case in 2E already? In Descent 1 any adjacent space to the doors line was considered to be an adjacent space to the door, so 6 spaces are adjacent. In SWIA it looks like only 4 spaces are adjacent, right?
 
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Alexander
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yes, so?
 
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Jo Bartok
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I was really suprised cause it actually matters for the turorial mission as far as I know and isnt explained in the learn to play guide AND is an exception to standard adjacency. As I said in my review, if you really wanna play you have to read all the rules, all the pages... and I'd loved to have a standard rulebook flow for that, personally.
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Alexander
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oh, now I get it. the point that is missing from standard adjacency is "share a corner" in addition to "share an edge".

Indeed. Well, then it is different from Descent, where diagonal spaces where adjacent, too.

On the one hand I think it is okay to say that you can open doors only, if you are directly in front of them. on the other hand this adds unnecessary rule exceptions, you have to keep in mind. Maybe they simply missed it. who knows.
 
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Jo Bartok
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Missed it? No I think it is pretty much on purpose. Else for instance the sniper can open a door out of cover in some rare situations ... and shoot.

I do think that it is unnecessary, maybe something done for skirmish but really just useless boilerplate in terms of streamlining for campaigns, but that's just my 2 cents.
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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ionas wrote:
Is this the case in 2E already? In Descent 1 any adjacent space to the doors line was considered to be an adjacent space to the door, so 6 spaces are adjacent. In SWIA it looks like only 4 spaces are adjacent, right?

Wouldn't 8 spaces be adjacent in Descent (both 1E and 2E)? We are talking about doors that are two spaces wide, right?

As for why they made the change, perhaps it is due to the new LoS rules as you surmised and they don't want figures to be able to open a door and shoot as their two actions while they are effectively in cover from their target.

Or perhaps somebody found it odd that you could reach out from a space in front of the wall beside the door to somehow open the door.

It could also be a side-effect from the way they want you to be able to count spaces to a door. It makes logical sense that you'd count to the spaces on either side of the door, not those diagonally adjacent. So they made those spaces the only adjacent ones for interacting with and attacking the door as well.
 
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Jo Bartok
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Yes 8 vs 4 not 6 vs 4
 
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Alexander
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Clipper wrote:
ionas wrote:
Is this the case in 2E already? In Descent 1 any adjacent space to the doors line was considered to be an adjacent space to the door, so 6 spaces are adjacent. In SWIA it looks like only 4 spaces are adjacent, right?

Wouldn't 8 spaces be adjacent in Descent (both 1E and 2E)? We are talking about doors that are two spaces wide, right?

As for why they made the change, perhaps it is due to the new LoS rules as you surmised and they don't want figures to be able to open a door and shoot as their two actions while they are effectively in cover from their target.

Or perhaps somebody found it odd that you could reach out from a space in front of the wall beside the door to somehow open the door.

It could also be a side-effect from the way they want you to be able to count spaces to a door. It makes logical sense that you'd count to the spaces on either side of the door, not those diagonally adjacent. So they made those spaces the only adjacent ones for interacting with and attacking the door as well.


8 spaces it is

In the end it does not really matter why. most people I played Descent with already thought you could only open doors from the spaces it shares an edge with, so I guess it is more intuitive for most people anyway.

however, purely thematically speaking, I think it would have been better being able to open doors from diagonal spaces as well. Thinking about the movies, they most often opened doors, staying close to walls and in cover... but whatever.
 
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Robert F-C
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Also the sentence:
Quote:
When declaring a P (melee) attack targeting a door, the attacker must be in one of those spaces.


seems to needlessly forbid melee attacks using Reach from other squares. This same condition is not mentioned in the Doors section.

Just poor wording without consideration for the use of Reach?
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Jorgen Peddersen
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WhereAreTheBlackDice wrote:
Also the sentence:
Quote:
When declaring a P (melee) attack targeting a door, the attacker must be in one of those spaces.


seems to needlessly forbid melee attacks using Reach from other squares. This same condition is not mentioned in the Doors section.

Just poor wording without consideration for the use of Reach?

Yes, I believe the Reach keyword overrides this rule. It's the one thing I'm not sure about, though.

Edit: As further justification, the Melee Attack rules say you must attack someone adjacent to you with this type of attack with no mention of Reach. The Door rule is likely written in a similar manner with Reach modifying the rule so you must be adjacent to one of the spaces the door shares an edge with to attack the door.
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Jo Bartok
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Wookie's Charge and Spaces vs Movement Points

Rules Ref Guide PG 19:

Quote:
When a figure performs a move, it gains movement points equal to its Speed.


Wookie: "Move a number of spaces up to your speed".

This does specify spaces not movement points. The rules
I'd argue you cannot pass through walls, closed doors, impassable terrain, but it does ignore:

A.) extra movement point costs for passing through enemy figures
B.) extra movement point costs for passing through difficult terrain

It further cannot be combined with strain based extra movement AFTERwards only PRIOR. E.g. you can use strain to gain 1 or 2 movement points and move with those PRIOR but not after you charge (then you will have to do the attack, as that is what the ability says).

The ambiguity is still there through:

Rules Ref Guide Pg 3:
Quote:
• Movement points can be spent before or after performing an action. If movement points are gained as part of a special action, they must be spent immediately during that action.


Quote:
countInG spaces
Many effects require players to measure the distance between two spaces. To determine this number, the player counts the number of movement points it would take for a figure to move from one space to the other.
Impassible terrain, figures, and difficult terrain can be moved into and through without costing additional movement point for this measurement. This measurement cannot go through walls, doors, or blocking terrain.
• If a figure’s ability specifies to choose something within a set number of spaces, players count spaces from the figure using the ability. Likewise, if an ability specifies to choose an adjacent figure, the figure must be adjacent to the figure using the ability


The Wookie does not gain Movement Points...
 
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Jo Bartok
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Found it...

Quote:
Move X Spaces: If an ability moves a figure a listed number of spaces, this movement ignores movement point costs. All other effects of terrain and figures apply (for example the figure cannot end its movement in another figure’s space). When moving in this way, a large figure’s base cannot rotate and must retain its orientation.


Yet another rules section that is not "clear" to newbies when just reading the Learn to Play Guide. Really annoying :/
 
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