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Sentinels of the Multiverse» Forums » Rules

Subject: Attack type modifiers rss

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torontoraptors
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When do attack type modifiers?
For example I have KNYFE and Ra.
Ra has the card(s?)that "change all hero damage to fire damage" and "increase fire damage by 1".
KNYFE uses a card/power which deals 1 melee and 1 energy damage, plus she has +1 melee damage and +1 energy damage.
Would she deal 2+2 (melee and energy, increased by one after changing to fire) or 3+3 (melee and energy increased by KNYFE, then +1 to each due to fire change).
 
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Ben MacFarlane
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It would be 2+2 - once the damage is no longer melee and energy, the +1 melee damage and +1 energy damage no longer apply. You would only get the +1 fire damage bonus.
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Roberta Yang
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More generally, conditional increases or reductions to damage whose condition is no longer satisfied stop applying. If damage is aimed at a target that has Damage Taken -1, and then the damage is redirected to a different target, the damage is no longer reduced.
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Jason Sherlock
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First thing to do when resolving this type of situation is to choose the order of effects to determine which type of damage is being applied. Once you do so, you can ignore the modifiers to other damage types.
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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And in this case there is only one thing modifying the damage type (Ra's Imbued Fire) so it is the only one that can apply. No choice available here.
 
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Robert Power
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In this case KNYFE is using an ability which does 1 melee and 1 energy damage, and there are two other cards on the table which can effect this attack. If you choose the +1 melee/+1 energy damage buff first why would Imbued Fire not trigger on top of that?

Doesn't this fall into the 'nothing is simultaneous' rule so the players choose the order? Can you guys give some pointers to FAQs or rules quotes of some sort for this, because I have never seen anything which suggests that you need to retroactively apply/remove damage modifiers (including stuff like redirection, which I have always played as redirecting the actual damage that would have been done to the target, not the damage pre modifiers).
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powerguynz wrote:
Can you guys give some pointers to FAQs or rules quotes of some sort for this, because I have never seen anything which suggests that you need to retroactively apply/remove damage modifiers (including stuff like redirection, which I have always played as redirecting the actual damage that would have been done to the target, not the damage pre modifiers).

Sure. Check Spiff's FAQ, page 5 for a general example or page 23 for a specific one about Legacy, Fortitude and Lead from the Front.
Spiff's FAQ is the collect guide of wisdom from the >G forum, nothing goes in there until it is officially confirmed by a >G employee.
 
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Geoff B.
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Damage modifiers are static effects.

They are a constant check, Like Wraith's targeting computer, if the damage is Projectile it gets boosted, if not it doesn't. There is no single application of an increase, it simply adds 2 to any damage that is projectile, if the damage changes type it doesn't benefit from that boost anymore.
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Naomi Nabbit
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powerguynz wrote:
In this case KNYFE is using an ability which does 1 melee and 1 energy damage, and there are two other cards on the table which can effect this attack. If you choose the +1 melee/+1 energy damage buff first why would Imbued Fire not trigger on top of that?

The correct way to see it is:
- KNYFE activates Primed Punch.
- KNYFE prepares to deal 1 target 1 melee damage.
- Prototype Servo-Gauntlet activates, increasing the 1 melee damage to 2 melee damage.
- Imbued Fire activates, changing the damage type to Fire. Prototype Servo-Gauntlet no longer applies as the damage type has changed, reducing the 2 melee damage to 1 fire damage.
- Imbued Fire activates, increasing the 1 fire damage to 2 fire damage.
- The target takes 2 fire damage.
- KNYFE prepares to deal the same target 1 energy damage.
- Focusing Conduit-Blade activates, increasing the 1 energy damage to 2 energy damage.
- Imbued Fire activates, changing the damage type to Fire. Focusing Conduit-Blade no longer applies as the damage type has changed, reducing the 2 energy damage to 1 fire damage.
- Imbued Fire activates, increasing the 1 fire damage to 2 fire damage.
- The target takes 2 fire damage.

Since these are "simultaneous effects" that are not start of turn or end of turn effects, the players choose the order in which they activate. However, even if the order changes, the result wouldn't change. Imbued Fire would go off, increasing each instance of damage to 2 fire, and then the Prototype Servo-Gauntlet and the Focusing Conduit-Blade wouldn't apply at all.

Conditional damage boosts are not constant once applied. They remain conditional. This applies to damage taken modifiers on a target when the damage is redirected, bonuses to damage against certain targets when the damage is redirected, etc.
 
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