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Catan: 5-6 Player Extension» Forums » General

Subject: Gang ups rss

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Holy Adam
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So firstly, hey, been using this site for browsing and lurking for a while now but never posted before, so time for me to come out my corner.

Recently bought the Cities and Knights expansion pack -'it's great fun I reckon, turns it into a much longer game it must be said and detracts from the simplistic beauty of Catan but still good fun.
We usually play with 6 of us at home, I have 5 other housemates who have all warmed to the game since I introduced them.
As the most seasoned player, I have been winning a fair share of my games and this has gone to the other players heads and so I get ganged up on when winning - part of the game, no problem.
However last night we played and with me on 8 points compared to the leaders 11, 4 of the 5 other players decided I had too many points and traded ridiculous cards with one player for him to take the Coin metropolis from me. I understand its in the rules that that is technically fine, you can trade one card for whatever but when you trade 4 coin for a grain and another players does another 3 (The guy got 8 coin off other players in total) it's kind of ridiculous.

Tldr; do you guys put into place and community rules on trading? The other player who agreed it was ridiculous agrees we should put trading rules in place.
I hope I don't sound whiny here, I know it is allowed or whatever but when it gets to the point I can't play a game because I'm being blocked at every turn, I just wanna even the playing field.
 
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Matthew Cordeiro
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If it's just a one-time thing, I'd forget about it. Maybe they just wanted someone else to win this time? If it becomes a pattern, then I'd speak up. Make a mental note of who has won the past few games, and bring that to their attention if it happens again.
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Reiner Dr. Düren
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A trade between players which also could be done with the bank, should not be done.
 
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Jörg Baumgartner
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RedPiranha wrote:
A trade between players which also could be done with the bank, should not be done.

Doing such a trade in a 5-6 players game when it is not your turn is effective, and I see no problem with that - that trade cannot be done with the bank since it isn't your turn, but will give you the chance to build something.

A kingmaker attitude should be discouraged. In this case, the action was perceived as unmaking a king, though. OTOH 8 points including a metropolis isn't much to write home about.

The OP having the blue metropolis might have contributed to that steal - playing lots of blue progress cards rarely makes you the most sympathic player. How much of a "get even for those cards" was involved in this ganging up?


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Raithyn
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jorganos wrote:
RedPiranha wrote:
A trade between players which also could be done with the bank, should not be done.

Doing such a trade in a 5-6 players game when it is not your turn is effective, and I see no problem with that - that trade cannot be done with the bank since it isn't your turn, but will give you the chance to build something.

A kingmaker attitude should be discouraged. In this case, the action was perceived as unmaking a king, though. OTOH 8 points including a metropolis isn't much to write home about.

The OP having the blue metropolis might have contributed to that steal - playing lots of blue progress cards rarely makes you the most sympathic player. How much of a "get even for those cards" was involved in this ganging up?



This exactly. We will often play with up to eight and sometimes you just have to get cards out of your hand. Also, blue won't win many friends in my experience, even if you single-handedly fight off the barbarian fleet.

It's also important to consider the running meta-game as part of the experience. If you are constantly winning, people will make it harder. Sometimes you can meta-game back but sometimes you just have to take it and find a multi-game strategy for turning the meta-tables. It can be hard to be a good sport about it, but if I'm winning over 50% of the games (with 8 people), I have to expect they'll decide to conspire against me for a while.
 
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Reiner Dr. Düren
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jorganos wrote:
RedPiranha wrote:
A trade between players which also could be done with the bank, should not be done.

Doing such a trade in a 5-6 players game when it is not your turn is effective, and I see no problem with that - that trade cannot be done with the bank since it isn't your turn, but will give you the chance to build something.

A kingmaker attitude should be discouraged. In this case, the action was perceived as unmaking a king, though. OTOH 8 points including a metropolis isn't much to write home about.

The OP having the blue metropolis might have contributed to that steal - playing lots of blue progress cards rarely makes you the most sympathic player. How much of a "get even for those cards" was involved in this ganging up?




In a game with 6 players there should be enough trade partners to trade with them better than with the bank. I never had this situation that a player traded with another at bank ratio. There always was one who offered a better trade. Of course when such a player is avoided since he has won a lot of games, this is poor sportsmanship.
 
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Grarrrg Grarrrgowski
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RedPiranha wrote:
A trade between players which also could be done with the bank, should not be done.


This still wouldn't stop dedicated shenanigans.
"Oh, you're not allowed to trade 4 Wheat for 1 Wood".
"Fine, then I trade 3 Wheat for 1 Wood, then trade 1 Wood for 1 Wheat, then trade 2 Wheat for 1 Wood".
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Raithyn
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RedPiranha wrote:
In a game with 6 players there should be enough trade partners to trade with them better than with the bank. I never had this situation that a player traded with another at bank ratio. There always was one who offered a better trade. Of course when such a player is avoided since he has won a lot of games, this is poor sportsmanship.

I'm not sure about other editions, but Mayfair 4ed. you can only trade on your turn but with 5+ you can build between any turn. If we have six players and there is a race to a certain spot, people will often make trades that would otherwise not be advantageous to get scarce resources and build before a competitor. Also, if only the active player has Brick and no one has Wheat, it's not uncommon for the Wheat player to offer up their card for any set of four so they can get what they really want. Occasionally the active player just uses the four instead. Our commodities (e.g. Coins) are usually valued much higher than the basic resources so the OP's situation would be rare, but it could happen. With less than 5 players, I wouldn't expect such trades to happen often.

And poor sportsmanship or not, having people team up against a consistent winner is just part of life. Including politics in game designs means it is to be expected. As one of the two consistent winners in my group (across most games we play), I can't say I see it as poor sportsmanship. It helps if you know everyone in the group though.
 
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I played hundreds of games of Settlers and Seafarers on Sea3d. Their rules are it's collusion if you just give someone a win. OTOH, if one player gives another player say, mucho brick and wood to take LR from the player in the lead can be kept from winning, that's allowed.
 
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Vince Lupo
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It is one of my huge pet peeves with games that allow trading.

In catan usually people don't entertain obscenely one sided trades. But enabling yourself to not have more than the hand limit can be worthwhile. So catan usually balances itself out. I'll play it about once a year. We don't play with 5+ anymore though as it gets too crowded. Maybe 5+ with seafarers.

Monopoly has it's huge trading problems. And that amongst other many other problems is why I don't play that much anymore.

And Bonhnanza, which has really loose trade rules that just killed the game for me.
 
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