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Subject: I must be doing *something* wrong rss

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Richard Dewsbery
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PLayed ten times. And my BEST score was -3VP (3 objectives taken; 9 Disorganized cards acquired). It seems that I start to get Disorganized cards quite early on, and once I have a turn where you draw 2 or 3 of them the game only gets harder. If I throw privates in the way of the Bad Stuff, I avoid taking Disorganized cards in the short-term, but I end up thinning my deck of useful troops and the game only gets harder. And if I recruit more than occasionally I'm leaving myself open to either more Disorganization, a build-up of static defences, or at best I'm just covering my early lost troops.

Either this game is BRUTAL or I'm doing something wrong . But I can't see what anymore (now I've worked out that terrain, objectives and *all* Axis cards except static defences are only in play for a round; before, when I was retaining some, the game was even harder).
 
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Max Michael
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Well it is brutal.
If you haven't already played it with the Axis
deck stacked in numerical order do that.
Be sure you are recruiting pathfinders when the opportunity allows as pathfinders will let you recruit two cards at once.
Keep a mix of the good stuff and the cheap stuff in the drop zone so you can at least replace your losses.
Don't forget you can keep cards back to use in the next hand. That should let you recruit some good cards.
And use suppression like crazy.

It took me a while too. But it kept calling me back.
Good luck.
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Richard Dewsbery
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OK, so I re-read the rules, reset the Axis deck, grabbed the first two Pathfinders I saw, and ...

scored -4VP.

Tried again. This time the Pathfinders remained elusive for the first half of the game, but I was able to use a Major to aggressively full Disorganized cards. And ...

scored -3VP.

Upwards of a dozen games and I haven't felt that I've got close to scoring zero yet. It might be time for me to pass this on to a friend, to see if a fresh pair of eyes - and a fresh approach - does any better.
 
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Max Michael
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You do realize the Major removes a disorganized card from your hand and place it back in the unit cohesion deck completely out of your deck right?
And the Lt lets you draw another card if you have a disorganized card?

You may be playing too aggressively.
You do realize you do not get disorganized cards for objectives, terrain and static defenses right?
Ignore these early on and even up to mid game and save good recruiting cards back from hand to hand. You may need to forego assaulting objectives until you have a solid deck. Don't worry about taking disorganized cards if it means you can save a good recruiting card or two back for the next round. Grab officers and jeeps to manage disorganized cards. Sounds like you need the major or at least a captain.
Use mortars and machine guns to suppress multiple cards at once to keep from getting more disorganized cards.
With two pathfinders and one other card you should be able to recruit one card with a value of four and one at five. If you've set the drop zone up with the right cards and the timing works out, your recruitment can stem or even turn the tide even though you had to take disorganized cards to do it. But there are no guarantees.

You are at least holding until relieved....

In game design terms the game is less linear than it is elastic.
How far can you stretch not taking objectives and taking disorganized cards in order to recruit without the rubber band breaking and still leave enough time for it to snap back and generate points.

Take a hard look at the deck cycling cards. A few of those in the deck and a good hand dealt and disorganized cards become a nuisance rather than killers.

Good luck.





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Richard Dewsbery
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Max Michael wrote:

You do realize the Major removes a disorganized card from your hand and place it back in the unit cohesion deck completely out of your deck right?
And the Lt lets you draw another card if you have a disorganized card?

Yup, and yup. The Major has been key to those games when I've been able to hold out until relieved; without him, it's usually an early finish.

The LT, I'm less enthused by. You take a Disorganized card (if you have one) and discard it, drawing a replacement. But that uses up the LT too - so you're swapping one useless card and a potentially useless one, in order to draw one unknown. Rarely has the card been as useful as a sergeant.
Quote:


You may be playing too aggressively.
You do realize you do not get disorganized cards for objectives, terrain and static defenses right?/q]
Possibly, and yes. Though I am scoring VERY few kills, preferring to aim for objectives.

But how do you avoid finishing the third turn without at least five Disorganized cards? Any turn where there are three Axis units in play I find I've been struggling to avoid either extra Disorganization, or losing several men.

[q]
With two pathfinders and one other card you should be able to recruit one card with a value of four and one at five.


But I've probably taken a hit on both the turn when I held something back AND the turn in which I used three cards to recruit. I was able to pull off a couple of 4&5 purchase turns this evening - all too little, too late (or at a cost of almost emptying the Disorganized deck).
 
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Richard Dewsbery
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Woohoo!

Only -8VP that time.

That's the worst result of the three this evening, with the deck stacked in my favour. And I know that I cheated at least twice (I accidentally drew an extra card, and forgot to apply a terrain penalty when buying one card). Argh!

Having watched the video and read the rules AGAIN, I can't see where I'm going wrong. Perhaps my deck is broken.
 
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Max Michael
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The Lt has a good recruiting ability too.
If he doesn't show up at the same time as your starting pathfinder hold him back until your starting pathfinder shows up and use him and the starting pathfinder to recruit together. Pick up a mortar or machine gun that suppresses multiple Axis cards at once. Good suppression cards should buy you some breathing space in a couple of ways. They can cover multiple Axis cards making up for getting multiple disorganized cards dealt out in a single hand or they can free up other cards to recruit or be held back for the next hand.
If the good suppression cards aren't available try recruiting multiple privates and corporals to buy you time. Unlike many other deck builders these weaker cards do more than just take up space in your deck and can be very useful.
It's not easy but it's not impossible.
You have a lot of flexibility built in. You don't have to engage anything if it's worth it to hold cards back to recruit or for the next hand.

You are cycling the drop zone cards with only two remaining after each hand and two more coming out right?


 
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Richard Dewsbery
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Oh yes. I've got to the point now where I can recruit quite a bit faster than I lose units, though I've not managed to stay ahead of the Disorganization curve - proportionately, I'm still ending up with about a third of the deck as those useless cards. Whenever I think that I have enough suppression, the game deals me armoured (or dug in) enemies; and most anti-armour ends up being a one-shot thing before dying in a hail of bullets.
 
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Max Michael
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Forgive me if I'm enjoying your trials as I've been there too.
You know you can toss anyone at armor or dug in cards right? They don't have to be anti armor capable.
Their attack is ineffective but it keeps you from getting a disorganized card.
Minus eight is pretty bad. Are you counting the points for the Axis cards you take?
Perhaps you should email Aaron for more or better tips. He has a better success rate than I do.
For what it's worth the games where I barely made it to hold until relieved are some of the most memorable.
 
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Aaron Lauster
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While I can believe Max having that a run of bad luck like that, I am going to guess there is something not going right. Let's see if we can figure it out.

-8 is an impressively difficult score to get a "hold until relieved" victory. That means you had 8 to 9 disorganized cards; captured no objectives and destroyed at most 1 armor unit or 1 or 2 infantry or road block units, but still made it though the whole deck. Was that the case?

Items to check
1) If a Axis unit was unblocked and you gained a disorganized card the axis card should have been discarded
2) Static Defenses do not give disorganized if not attacked, although they do remain in play and prevent attacking the objective
3) You discard a static defense if it is attacked even if it doesn't destroy the defense. Someone with a grenade sacrifices themselves to get their buddies past the defense.

Any of these help?
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Richard Dewsbery
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Loup wrote:
Richard
While I can believe Max having that a run of bad luck like that, I am going to guess there is something not going right. Let's see if we can figure it out.

-8 is an impressively difficult score to get a "hold until relieved" victory. That means you had 8 to 9 disorganized cards; captured no objectives and destroyed at most 1 armor unit or 1 or 2 infantry or road block units, but still made it though the whole deck. Was that the case?
yup. I've got quite good at clinging on by my fingernails.
Quote:

Items to check
1) If a Axis unit was unblocked and you gained a disorganized card the axis card should have been discarded

Yup.
Quote:

2) Static Defenses do not give disorganized if not attacked, although they do remain in play and prevent attacking the objective
Yup. These have REALLY hampered my ability to take objectives (well, alongside the fist full of Disorganizeds I,ve been picking up).
Quote:

3) You discard a static defense if it is attacked even if it doesn't destroy the defense. Someone with a grenade sacrifices themselves to get their buddies past the defense.

Yup. Though does the unit that engages a Blockhouse have to have an antitank attack? If so, I've been cheating a few times, so probably wouldn't have done even this well!

I've loaned the game to a friend now, along with the rules but no preconceptions; if he can crack it I'll ask him to show me how it's done, and if he runs into the same problems then I might video one of my games in the hope that it shows up where I am going wrong. I feel that there must be something, but I can't see what.
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christian lecuyot
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Hello all,

I played the game 3 times. My first play was full of mistakes so i wont tell about it. For my second play, i finished with 3 VP. For my third play, i won with 17,5 VP (14 VP with 7 objectives, 2 VP with 2 armored unit killed, 1,5 points with 3 infantries killed, 0 disorganized). Maybe i was lucky, maybe i was doing something wrong or maybe both !... But anyway here is the things which i feel are important and made me win.

In the first third of the game, i didnt care at all about objectives and destroying axis units. My only goal was to buy reinforcement and to block as many axis units as possible to prevent to take desorganized cards. During this time i took only 2 disorganized cards, lost some soldiers, but took a bunch of new cards. I got the Major early (here this is luck) who allowed me to take away many disorganized cards all along the game untill i finished with zero disorganized card. The major is one of the most powerfull card of the game in my opinion. Otherwise, the units with suppression capabalities has to be taken fast, to allow to block axis unit without losing your own troops. The jeeps are great too, they allow you to draw 2 cards. This is very helpful, especially when you have many disorganized cards in your hand.

In the second part of the game, i had a quite better deck to draw in and i started to be able to take objectives, but i still didnt care much about killing units, but just blocking them.

In the third part of the game, i had a very powerfull deck with no dummies, objectives were easy to take and i killed few units too.

Thats how i got my 17,5 points. The begining was very hard and i had many units killed, but once the deck was improved enough, things became easier turn after turn.

I hope that helps and also that i didnt do anything wrong to get such a good score.
 
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Max Michael
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The unit that engages a blockhouse or other armor unit does not have to have anti armor ability.
It's attack will have no effect and it may well die (but not always) but you will not get a disorganized card.
 
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Richard Dewsbery
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Yep, that's what I thought the rule was (and how I've been playing the game).
 
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christian lecuyot
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You really must doing something wrong Richard. Since my last message here, i played again twice and i won again with 12 and 15 VP. I find it very easy now that i found a right strategy, and i will have now to try with the Mission Deck shuffled to get a harder challenge.

I really like this game, it is very well designed.
 
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Richard Dewsbery
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Do you draw five new cards at the start of each turn even if you've held some over from a previous turn? I don't think that I was doing this, and instead I was only drawing back up to five cards - so retaining a Pathfinder for the next turn would occasionally pay dividends, but only at the cost of having even less to do on that second turn. If you get five *new* cards at the start of the turn that might make the difference.

Assuming that I had got it wrong, I'm not going to be able to give the game another go any time soon, as I leant it to a friend who isn't planning on being at th games club this week But I'll try again when I get my copy back and see if it makes scoring points any easier.
 
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christian lecuyot
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Yes, you have to draw 5 new cards at the start of each turn and to keep the cards you didnt use in the previous turn. This probably explains why you had so many problems to get a decent score.
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Max Michael
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Eureka!
Yes! Draw five new cards even when keeping one or more from the last hand.
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Kai Mölleken
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LoganTT wrote:
Hello all,

I played the game 3 times. My first play was full of mistakes so i wont tell about it. For my second play, i finished with 3 VP. For my third play, i won with 17,5 VP (14 VP with 7 objectives, 2 VP with 2 armored unit killed, 1,5 points with 3 infantries killed, 0 disorganized). Maybe i was lucky, maybe i was doing something wrong or maybe both !... But anyway here is the things which i feel are important and made me win.

In the first third of the game, i didnt care at all about objectives and destroying axis units. My only goal was to buy reinforcement and to block as many axis units as possible to prevent to take desorganized cards. During this time i took only 2 disorganized cards, lost some soldiers, but took a bunch of new cards. I got the Major early (here this is luck) who allowed me to take away many disorganized cards all along the game untill i finished with zero disorganized card. The major is one of the most powerfull card of the game in my opinion. Otherwise, the units with suppression capabalities has to be taken fast, to allow to block axis unit without losing your own troops. The jeeps are great too, they allow you to draw 2 cards. This is very helpful, especially when you have many disorganized cards in your hand.

In the second part of the game, i had a quite better deck to draw in and i started to be able to take objectives, but i still didnt care much about killing units, but just blocking them.

In the third part of the game, i had a very powerfull deck with no dummies, objectives were easy to take and i killed few units too.

Thats how i got my 17,5 points. The begining was very hard and i had many units killed, but once the deck was improved enough, things became easier turn after turn.

I hope that helps and also that i didnt do anything wrong to get such a good score.


May I assume that you played with a shuffled mission deck? Not caring about the objectives in first third of the game and getting 7 out of 8 doesn't add up. Also it doesn't work without taking a good amount of Disorganized cards when you play with the mission deck in numerical order.

Edit:

Okay, here's my experience.

For the first three games I played with the Mission Deck in numerical order. And lost badly each time. First two games I had to take the 10th Disorganized Card on the very last turn. Third game I made it through and had scored -3 VPs.

After those three plays I had the feeling that the Mission deck is stacked in a way that makes it very hard to take certain objectives.

So the next time I just shuffled the Mission Deck.

To make it short: Over the course of the entire game I didn't have to take one additional Disorganized card. I finished with 12 VPs in my scoring pile with still 8 cards in the Mission Deck.

Out of curiousity I played the last two turns and the VPs in my scoring pile went up to 17,5 as well. If I had got the Major during the game I would have ended up with the same result as Logan. If you subtracted the 3 Disorganized Cards I started with that would total up to 14,5 VPs.

And it wasn't really hard to pull it off.

Conclusion: I'd question the advice to have new players play the first couple of games with the Mission Deck in numerical order.
It may be useful in order to go through the same situations a couple of times with different approaches and evaluate different strategies. But it does not make it easier for new players.

 
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Max Michael
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The Mission Deck in order isn't meant to give you an easy win every time.
But to ensure you don't lose in the first few hands (which can happen) and play through to or near the end.
We don't necessarily recommend you play with the deck in order until you win but rather until you get the hang of things.
 
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Kai Mölleken
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I get that and I think it is a good approach... IF you let players know about that.

When players read that they are supposed to play their first games in a certain way, they tend to expect this way to be easier. But if you tackle the game with this expectation, then it can be very frustrating.

So if you care for my advice, I'd include this in the instruction of the (hopefully) upcoming next print run... Just a little information that lets players put those first few playthroughs into perspective.

Edit: But then I don't get your advice in your first response to this thread. If you are aware that sorting the Mission Deck does NOT make it any easier to WIN but just to make it to the end... why do you suggest it to someone who has already played the game ten times? This also implies that the game is easier to beat and score higher this way...

But please don't get me wrong! This was not a rhethoric question to play Mr. Wise Guy! I'm just interested in the rationale behind the sorted Mission Deck.
 
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Max Michael
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As Richard was doing so poorly and was assuming he was doing something wrong I wanted to be sure he was at least ordering the Mission Deck.
 
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Richard Dewsbery
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It didn't seem to make a lot of difference; I was able to lose as badly with a random mission deck as I was with a properly ordered one. At least with an ordered mission deck I knew when things like the tanks would turn up (not that that ever helped very much).

I *think* that I might have only been drawing BACK to five, rather than five new cards each turn. If I'm wrong about that, and I was drawing five extra cards per turn, I have no chuffing idea why I was doing so badly. Right now the decks remain in the possession of a friend (who plays a lot of solo games, but has only played AC the once, and struggled much as I did). I should get the game back later this week, and I intend to video my next abject failure so that Max can verify where I have it right or wrong.
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christian lecuyot
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Kai, until now i always played the Mission deck in numerical order and i think it helps a lot. Most of the mission cards are far from the begining and you have time to improve your team before to face objectives. Only the first and the second objective will be probably lost, the other ones should be gained if you improved well your team. I am scared to use a random Mission deck with most of the objective in the first half of the deck. Then with such a deck, that would be a true difficult challenge to win the game in my opinion.

Note : The major is a mandatory card in your hand, you have to catch him as soon as you can to be able to take the disorganized cards away from your deck.
 
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Richard Dewsbery
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See, there's another point on which I'm unconvinced - the value of the Major. On a turn in which you use him, you are discarding the Disorganized card and have played the Major for no other effect, leaving you with three cards in your hand. Which usually saw me either picking up ANOTHER Disorganized card, losing a man, and recruiting nobody else. Added to which, the turn when I had five recruitment points to buy the Major was probably a bad one, netting me a Disorganized card or worse. Early Majors just seemed to leave me with a lean deck later on (but too late to do anything); late Majors were just pointless.

I've got to try this again soon.
 
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